I assumed the poster spoke correctly and there was a neutral, yes I know stuff that only uses 240 often is fed with two hots and a ground. My bigger worry would be if the 240 breaker was larger than 20A which is not allowed for standard wall plugs.
But he never actually said that he has a neutral. He's *assuming* that there is one. This is a common assumption among people who don't understand how North American 240V service works, but it's usually a mistaken assumption.
Most 240V *appliance* circuits *do* have a neutral (because they also have
120V control circuits).Most 240V *motor* circuits do *not* have one.
It'd be one heck of a big pool pump, to need a 30A 240V circuit...
Yes. Stoves and dryers are the only special case where you could do this. It's been against US code for a couple of years now, so you can't do new installations that way anymore.
[It's been against Canadian code for at least 30 years.]I wouldn't dream of doing it with a pool pump outdoors. You're compromising the ground. That plus water that you immerse yourself in doesn't mix.
If you lost a ground connection (many ground connections really aren't that good - I've seen too many people just wrap them without wire nuts - or worse, assume that simply lying against the electrical box sides was sufficient), the pump frame, the fixture, and everything else bonded to them in the area could go hot. And you're just asking for corrosion
- which'll kill the ground eventually if it's carrying any current.
Bad. Really really bad.
This is one of those "it'd probably work for a while" _will_ eventually bite you.
Either he has four wire, or he converts the pump to 120V. Either way is reasonable. Might not be able to convert the pump to 120V, or the circuit may not be beefy enough for it. Strictly speaking, probably both approaches are still against code (code doesn't like sharing motors (except very small ones) with anything else on a circuit). But an inspector would probably let you get away with it for a light bulb or two on a "change" (rather than new install).
A 240V bulb is by far the simplest/cheapest solution.
.. which is exactly what I said a day and a half ago.
Is there an echo in here?
Better still, count the insulated ones. There's probably only one that's uninsulated.
Many people do not understand that 240V
He expressly referred to two hot wires, a ground wire, and a wire he referred to as a "common." 4 wires in all. What are you suggesting he means by "common" other than neutral? No one is suggesting he or anyone else wire anything without verifying for certain that that is the case. But we have only what he stated to go on.
Since you're the one who is coming to the conclusion that the wire he refers to is NOT a neutral may I ask what you think it is? Everyone else here believes he is referring to a neutral...yes yes it should be verified...but that's what he said and I'm puzzled why you draw some other conclusion.
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 23:43:02 -0000, Steve Kraus wrote Re Re: 220 volt to 110 volt:
Indeed, I second the request. With all 4 wires accounted for, just what do you (Doug) think the OP is referring to by "common" and "ground" ?
Guess what: Some professional electricians will run a neutral in a
240v circuit even if the application doesn't require the neutral. They do it because it's a good practice that can save a lot of aggravation down the line.Admit it Doug. You read it wrong. It's as simple as that.
Question: when you screw up some wiring, are you just as obstinate in admitting the mistake?
OOPS! Pardon me while I wipe the egg off my face. Thanks for catching that.
Go back and re-read the original post.
And he never explicitly stated that he actually had all four.
Geez, I thought I'd already made that clear -- I think he's referring to a neutral that he *assumes* is present because he misunderstands how 240V circuits are wired, and thinks that all circuits have neutrals. Look at it this way: if he *did* understand how 240V circuits are wired, he'd know what to look for and he'd know what to do with it, and would not have asked the question in the first place.
In a 240V motor circuit, it's *very* unlikely that there is a neutral conductor present. The OP never said that he actually checked. He's assuming that there is a neutral. That assumption is probably incorrect.
See my response to Steve. Perhaps the third time you read the same thing, you'll finally figure it out.
Yes, some do. Most don't.
No, I didn't. *You* read it wrong. Maybe if you take a deep breath, re-read the original post -- where the OP never said that he actually looked to see what's there -- and finally think about it even just a little bit, you might possibly begin to realize that you don't have a clue.
But probably not.
I've made no mistake here.
I couldn't resist...It's getting close to Xmas and I thought of those series strings of many low voltage incandescent bulbs plugged into 120 volt sockets.
Jeff
He has not said if he's looked but he hasn't said that he hasn't either. You are making an assumption based on the utterly ridiculous contention that if he did look and saw four wires he wouldn't be bothering to ask. Why is that utterly ridiculous? Because a non professional might still ask to make sure that it's OK in terms of safety and code since as we all know there are many things that might physically work that are not. Is it ok to put a 120V receptacle on one side of a 240V line? Will it work...of course. Is it safe and to code? That's the real question here and you went off on a tangent.
Since the man asked if it's ok to hook up based on the presence of a neutral the logical response would be to treat it as though there is one. Naturally if there isn't then he cannot do it that way. Everyone else is treating the case based on the facts presented by the OP, whether those facts are verified truth or just assumed. If you want to add a little kicker along the lines of "hey there's a good likelyhood there is no neutral present and in that case here's what to do" then fine. But you're insisting that the poster's question is wrong on the face of it. Everyone else is answering the question as given.
Is this a game you play? If a someone asks a question--any question--then obviously they must not be capable of doing the task they ask about. Trying to turn this place into alt.hvac?
Actually if you read the original post, the OP could have a neutral with only two current carrying conductors if he converts the circuit to 110V, which is what he is asking.
To answer that question with any certainty you would need to know the HP of the motor, and maybe the distance from the pump to the panel.
No, I don't think that's what he's asking although I agree there is at least a touch of ambiguity. While he does use the word "convert" in the first sentence when he says what he is proposing in the second sentence he refers only to things at the outlet end, nothing about at all about converting entirely to a 120V circuit.
If he's proposing anything at the breaker end it's not contained in what he stated. Until he says otherwise I will presume he means to put a 120 outlet across one leg of the "220" (240) and neutral with a ground. Whether the neutral is there or not remains to be seen but that's the proposal that I get out of the posting.
That's true. Some of us even occasionally call the two legs of a 240 volt circuit, "Phases"! Which in North American residential service is most unlikely to be true. But let's not introduce that (phase) complication into a very unclear original question; still lacking information. I give up! Who's on first ...... etc. :-) :-) :-) BTW. The reason for the constant reference to 'North American' (which seems to be a good working system capable as it is of supplying both
120 and 240 volts) is because in Europe and elsewhere a 240 volt supply could very well be one 'hot' wire at 240 volts (50 hertz) and one 'neutral' at around zero volts. But could also be (in some systems) two leads, neither at a zero potential, neither really considered to be a neutral but at 240 volts (50 hertz) with respect to each other. However the two leads 'could' in certain systems be 'phases'. :-( :-(THREE days now and no response from the OP. We should be able to plainly see this was a troll.
s
Oh come on. If he's a troll then he's a genius troll. Who could possibly foresee that a simple question like that, reasonably clear but for his use of "common" instead of "neutral," would lead to so much needless argument?
anyone who follows this group....
Sir, I defer to your greater knowledge of trolling. LOL
/elvis voice on
thankya, thankya very much..
s
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