Getting 110 volts in a 220 volt Pumphouse

[Pat Keith]

My pump house is fed with 2 conductors and a bare ground. Can I create 110 volts for a light without running another cable?

[Steve]

Not safely or to code.

You would need to replace the 2 conductor (w/ground) with a 3 conductor (w/ground) so you will have the nuetural.. The ground shouldn't be use as the nuetral.

steve

[Toller]

Well, obviously you could get a 240v bulb; they do exist. I don't know of any code this would violate, but I could be wrong about it... You could run the 240v through 2 bulbs of the same wattage in series. That is essentially what you are doing when you change a motor from 120v to

240v.

Okay, now everyone chip in with all the code sections it violates.

[Tony Hwang]

[j j]

why not? the the neutral just goes to the ground wire in the panel. what difference does it make if you run an extra wire that's simply connected to the ground wire some dozen meters away?

what if the ground is "grounded" some more in the pumphouse? (let's say it's attached to a rod going in the ground) would that make a difference?

[Tom Horne]

Your wish is my command.

-- Tom H

210.6 Branch-Circuit Voltage Limitations. The nominal voltage of branch circuits shall not exceed the values permitted by 210.6(A) through (E). (A) Occupancy Limitation. In dwelling units and guest rooms of hotels, motels, and similar occupancies, the voltage shall not exceed 120 volts, nominal, between conductors that supply the terminals of the following: (1) Luminaires (lighting fixtures) (2) Cord-and-plug-connected loads 1440 volt-amperes, nominal, or less or less than 1/4 hp

[zxcvbob]

I'm not advising you to do this; just some things for you to think about:

What size is the ground wire? You said "pumphouse", which is a new structure, so maybe you can use the 3-wires like a service entrance and bond the ground and neutral again and can do what you want "legally." But a whole lot of rules apply and it would be a PITA.

Do you have a metal well casing, or plastic?

Take a look at fused switch "LSSU" on page 3:

Especially if I had a #10 or larger ground wire, I would be tempted to use LSSU, or LSOX and a snap switch, and wire a single bare-bulb light fixture using the ground wire as a neutral. And ground everything to the well casing. It's no worse than a 3-wire electric stove or clothes dryer circuit.

Can you find 220V light bulbs? That would be the kosher way to light the pumphouse, but the bulbs are very expensive and hard to find in the US. Or maybe you can find a 220V fluorescent fixture.

Best regards, Bob

[RB]

Just buy a 240 volt bulb. The Europeans use these just like we use 120 volt bulbs.

RB

Pat Keith wrote:

[Goedjn]

Y'all have some religious objection to a transformer?

[Greg Menke]

So does that mean he would be in better shape code-wise to simply tape the stripped ends of the wire to the bulb contacts, avoiding the fixture? ;)

Gregm

[zxcvbob]

Have you ever tried to find a 220V to 110V transformer? That was gonna be my suggestion until I spent 15 minutes on google trying to find one. Everything is packaged as an "international voltage adapter" rather than just a transformer you can wire up yourself like a doorbell transformer.

Bob

[BeamGuy]

Also not to code - but just string two 110 volt bulbs in series... Benefit, you get two lights. Disadvantage - when one blows both go out.

[Goedjn]

So which is a pump-house? a dwelling unit, or a guest-room of a hotel?

I mean, I *HAVE* heard of an alternative interpretation of the phrase "village pump", to mean a lady of negotiable virtue...)

--Goedjn

[Goedjn]

--Goedjn

[zxcvbob]

Put *two* light bulbs in series and connect the ground wire to their common neutral. That will drastically reduce the current you're putting back on the ground wire -- if the lamps are the same wattage, no current will flow through the ground wire unless one burns out. It will also be safer than letting the neutral float because the with two lamps in series and a floating neutral, the full 110V will be on the socket shell when you change a bulb. It is also safer than using a 220V screw-in lamp for the same reason (energized threaded portion when you are screwing in a new bulb.)

Use a double-pole switch to control the lights.

It's still not kosher, but it's getting safer...

Bob

[Goedjn]

I'm not convinced that deliberately connecting any thing powered to the equipment ground counts as "safer"....

[RB]

I had 240 volt European style outlets installed in my bathrooms. They are all fed through 20 amp 240 volt double pole GFCI breakers and when it was inspected the inspector had no problem with it.

I have frequent visitors from Europe and it is more convenient to provide them with an easy way to operate personal appliances.

P

Tom Horne wrote:

[C G]

Ten minutes, found at least two that looked viable. Here's a link to one of them:

Look at the bottom right, the one labled (TP) N6U. Only $10. Rated for

1.74 amps, which should be more than enough for a light bulb.

[Chris Lewis]

According to Tom Horne :

Obviously, that shouldn't apply to a pumphouse. But it will make 240V bulbs hard to find.

Interpretation may be tricky. A permanently installed 240V device wouldn't be allowed to have a pilot lamp for example...

If you put two bulbs in series in different fixtures, neither "fixture" has terminals exceeding 120V apart. But I _really_ don't like this one.

Another solution to the OP's question is to consider low voltage lighting. While it'd be difficult to install the LV transformer on the 240V in the pumphouse (would that qualify as a luminaire per above?), since there is essentially no code requirements on LV wire (except where it may come in close proximity to a "normal" circuit), running a 12V line from a transformer on the house to LV lighting in the pumpshed would likely be no problem.

My gardening shed is "wired" with 12V light fixtures. The transformer is on the house, and the wire is only buried a few inches deep.

[Chris Lewis]

According to j j :

Isn't this the 10th or 20th time this week?

Because if something ever goes wrong with the "ground used as neutral", then everything grounded on that circuit goes "hot". Let's say you tried that stunt with a furnace. If that bare wire opened (can you say "dumb contractor thinking hand twisting ground wires is enough"?), your duct work would become live. Water pump? Then your plumbing goes live.

Bad ju-ju. Real bad.

Ground rods usually make surprisingly poor contact with the dirt. Infact, it just made it more dangerous. If some thing goes wrong with that "ground used as neutral", then you're trying to pump power into the dirt. Probably _not_ enough to trip the breaker. But perhaps amply adequate to simply electrocute you if you step in the wrong place, or start a fire. And of course, all the grounded stuff on that circuit is live.

Neutral != safety ground, even though they're connected together (once) in the main panel.