# 110 tap off 220 plug?

Is it possible, and safe, to run a 110 outlet off a 220 outlet? The electrician said it was, but out of code, so he would not. BUT I know one of the mag's had an article last year which showed how.
I am not an electrician, so please be as clear as possible..thanks..
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If you have a 15 or 20 amp dedicated outlet for something like an airconditioner, it can be converted at the breaker panel from 240 to 120 volt, but if you're looking to tap 120 volts from an existing 240 volt outlet, it would need a neutral conductor, which many 240 volt outlets won't have

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How many amps is the circuit? How many wires is the circuit?
Assuming you want to install a 120v 20a (or 15a) outlet, the 240v circuit cannont be over 20a (or 15a). And it will have to be 3wire so you have a neutral for your 120v outlet; and that would be odd to find on a 20a 240v circuit.
So, you probably have too much amperage, or not enough wires; so you probably can't do it. The electrician might have been thinking of using the ground wire as a neutral. That is certainly against code, and while it would work, isn't something you want to do. I hope a magazine didn't recommend it.
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How can he have too much amperage available? If the wires two the 120 volt circuit are as big as the wires to the original circuit, and the receptacle is big enough to handle whatever is plugged in, how can there be too much amperage?
The rest I agree with.

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mm wrote:

I'm assuming that the OP wants to hook up a standard 15A duplex receptacle. If the original circuit is more than 20A then generally you cannot wire a 15A receptacle to it.
Chris
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says...

...unless you replace the 20A breaker with a 15A.
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It's real simple: the electrical code requires that the receptacle's amperage rating cannot be less than that of the circuit. The only exceptions are that 15A receptacles are permitted on 20A circuits, and receptacles rated less than 15A are permitted on 15A circuits.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Well, if it is a 50a 240v circuit, you can't get get 20a 240v out of it without installing a load center with a 20a breaker in it. That probably goes beyond what the OP wants to do.
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OK. I don't get it, but I'll bear it in mind, and I won't do it either.

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The point is that Code doesn't permit 20A receptacles on a 50A circuit.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:58:54 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

So why not just install a 50A recepticle and be done with it?
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wrote:

Because ordinary appliances can't be plugged into a 50A receptacle.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 20:49:17 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@myschool.com wrote:

Then what do you do with the 15A and 20A plugs that don't fit?
(imagining an electric clock modified with a NEMA 5-50P)
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that'd be cool. A fuggin 40 dollar cord cap on a four dollar clock. LMAO! Kind of like these punk assed kids putting a \$2000 stereo in a junkassed \$50 ricer.
--
Steve Barker

"Tony M" < snipped-for-privacy@notaspamsump.invalid> wrote in message
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The basic problem is that the breaker provides some protection to the receptacle, as well as the wiring. If you try to draw 30 A from a 15 A receptacle on a 15 A circuit, you'll trip the breaker. If you connect a 15 A receptacle to a circuit wired and fused for 30 A, you can draw 30 A continuously, and that's safe for the wire but the receptacle may overheat.
The breaker *also* provides some protection for the wires in the power cord of the device plugged into the receptacle, until you get downstream of the fuse in the device (if any). A short caused by frayed insulation in the power cord will have to trip the branch circuit breaker. (This isn't true in the UK, where individual plugs have fuses sized to protect the cord and/or device).
Dave
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Ignoring code, if it is a 4 wire 220V outlet with 2 hots, a neutral and a ground, an adapter that connected to one of the hots, the neutral and the ground would be safe. OTOH, if it is a 3 wire 220V outlet, with 2 hots and a ground only, then there is no neutral to connect to. It would be possible to get 120 by connecting to one hot and the ground in this case, and in fact for small loads like lights or controls on 220v appliances, this used to be common practice. Personally, I might use such an arrangement for a temporary, one-time job, perhaps connecting a light or small powertool if there was no other outlet within convenient distance, but not for a permanent outlet. to
--
When the game is over, the pawn and the king are returned to the same box.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf.lonestar.org
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On Feb 10, 1:00 am, snipped-for-privacy@sdf.lNoOnSePsAtMar.org (Larry) wrote:

In one of my previous homes built in 1980, a three wire 50A range outlet was still code. It was also common for ranges widely available at the time to include a 120V convenience outlet (usually controlled by the broken clock). I'm assuming that such configurations are grandfathered into the more recent code, suggesting that safety is not a major issue (otherwise, rewiring would have been mandated along with subsidies for those unable to pay for such a change). I see that newer ranges provide a jumper between neutral and ground to accommodate three wire installations. What is the real downside to such a configuration? Why was the code tightened up?
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

LOL
The code prohibits using a ground as a neutral and vice versa (this being a grandfather exception, one of very few). If the neutral-ground opened, the frame of the range would be hot. With separate neutral and ground that would take 2 failures.
My favorite response is from gfretwell: "The stove end was wired like they did in the WWII days when copper was in short supply and we used a 3 wire cable. NFPA finally figured out the war was over in 1999 (96?) and changed the code, requiring a 4 wire circuit and plug."
-- bud--
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That's probably the most important part of your post. If you're not an electrcian, why are you even thinking about doing something you clearly don't understand.
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snipped-for-privacy@cogeco.ca says...

That's the whole point of asking a question in a newsgroup. Unlike many of the pros here, most of weren't born with this knowledge. The only way to gain this knowledge is through research. The newsgroups seem to be a good source for useful information from those who have already acquired this knowledge and are willing to share it. It's also a good source for a list of gotchas from those who have already made mistakes. This is, essentially, a DIY newsgroup. As such, there are people here who are determined to do it themselves. Far better that they embark on their adventure with an idea of what they're doing rather than totally blind. If "Don't do it yourself!" was a universally acceptable answer, I could just ask my Mom.
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