On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:51:04 -0500,when reading "rec.gardens", I'm certain I caught a glimpse of "Jangchub " saying:
I'm an Atheist but this is a gardening newsgroup so I won't discuss our differences in religious beliefs.
No. Over the weekend I knocked in 4 stakes and stapled some frost cloth across the top. It was supposed to be a cloche for a succulent. Today my wife got home and found our thick as a plank black & white cat using it is a hammock. Last night I found another of the cats sleeping on some towels in the washing machine. Daft.
rob
I'm also an atheist. Buddhism does not believe in creation or a central god.
the reason that there are now ticks where there were NEVER ticks in the past is that the deer population has exploded. So has the rabbit and squirrel population. And the coyote, fox and wolf population is following as expected.
I left the squirrels alone until they began eating into our house. I battled them for 4 years paying people to replace the chewed wood, reinforce with aluminum flashing. This spring I realized they had once again found a way in so I set the trap and got 2 adults and 3 out of the 4 young ones. Squirrels are smart and would remember "the good old days" of eating their way thru the metal flashing to get into the house. I had to get rid of all with any memory of eating into the house. I inherited the "house dwellers" from the house next door which stood empty for 5 years or so and they had been in there. When the house was bought and being fixed up the squirrels were evicted and just moved over to my house.
There are a couple ways to deal with baby vermin (yes, they do carry disease so handle carefully). Put them out in the open and let nature take its course. I prefer to drop them into a bucket of ice cold water. They sink and die quickly, the cold water numbs them. I had to drown the squirrels I caught in the cage. I didnt like doing this, but it was fast. The laws forbid "relocation" of wild animals like this in Wisconsin.
Ingrid
O', den you won't be joining us for next spring's fertility rites;-)
I'm a little curious about something now. You mentioned in another post that you weed your garden. I understand you have to kill plants to eat and survive, but how does weeding fit in? This is simple curiosity, since I weed without compunction. You mentioned you won't use a herbicide, so I wondered if there's a difference- there certainly isn't any difference in that the plant is dead. (Not saying anything against that either, since while I am not organic, I also don't use any pesticides or herbicides on my property).
Chris
I'm wondering whether you two are really atheists, or perhaps agnostics. You're aware of the difference: Atheists assert that there is no "god" "supreme being" "whatever". Agnostics say they just do not know. Many live as though they were atheists, but adopt the view that they cannot assert something for which there is no scientific proof, nor can there be. It's an important difference. OTOH, believers operate on faith.
Persephone
While looking about for voluptuous plants inspired from your post found this tidbit.
Bill
Last sentence from above URL.
"Two hundred years ago, the pleasure must have been as sweet when a botanist and a prince -- and possibly they were the same man -- conceived the idea and accordingly decreed that, no matter how dark the night or how troubled and complex the political situation, on the dinner table, at least, it thenceforth might as well be spring. "
"I'm as restless as a willow in a windstorm, I'm as jumpy as puppet on a string"
I'd call it tornado season:o(
Voluptuous plants ain't exactly wot I 'ad in mind, mate, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Take care now and don't get no splinters.
Ah, ye kin take the boy outta the country but ye can't take the country outta the boy;-)
Sad thing about the dinning ware is that it is designated the "good dinning ware" put into a hutch to be gazed at and rarely, if ever, used. The petit bourgeois drove Flaubert to depression and fame.
We all kill things all day long. We walk on insects, microbes, digest and kill bacteria. Sentient beings. Plants are not sentient beings. At least they aren't sentient in my belief system. His Holiness the Dalai Lama says plants are not sentient beings and I agree. There are the studies of plants reacting to different stimuli, but by pulling a weed, I am not committing murder, nor am I creating non-virtuous karma by pulling weeds.
I kill all day. There isn't an atom of space where a sentient being doesn't exist (according to Buddhist teachings). I am very mindful of that so when I walk I look down and intentionally try not to step on things I can see with my eyes. Etc.
No, I'm an ateist. I know the difference. I do not believe there is anyone or anything which created anything or anyone. There is no beginning or end. That's my faith base. Not skeptical about evidence regardless if or if there isn't a god who created. I don't buy any of it. That's an atheist.
In Buddhism there are realms, one of which is called a god realm, but it doesn't imply this represents a creator or even a supreme being above anyone else. We all have the potential to develop that state of mind where god realms are a possibility. It's a state of mind, not something existing from its own side. Emptiness means nothing exists without someone putting a label on it. Many think that is nhilistic, it is different than that. There are two truths in Buddhism; Ultimate and Conventional reality. Ultimate reality is that nothing exists from its own side, isn't produced, but is not unproduced.
It's way too big a topic to discuss here, but I am atheist, not agnostic.
Thanks for detailed and interesting account.
Persephone
The last word on this is if you want to know how Buddhism works an excellent place to look is
Could you be more specific? All I heard was a lot of throat clearing.
Yes, Rinpoche does do a lot of that, but eventually we don't hear the coughing and clearing. However, there are many western teachers. This Buddhist nun is American and she is more than qualified to teach the topic of emptiness.
Also, you can find wonderful teachings which you can watch or listen to for free here:
Here's another:
Reminds me of when my father uncovered a nest of baby mice after opening up an old stairway in the house. My mother has fond affection for mice, but unfortunately in this case it was the dead of winter, so they reluctantly agreed it would be more humane to drown them than to leave them to starvation & predation. Nobody ever thought about ice water, though; I'll have to keep that in mind, "in case".
Uh, oh. Guess the rabbits are in for more trouble than I thought, since that's where I am.
I think you're a bit off on your herbivore/carnivore dentition information. Herbivores certainly do have incisors - they use them to cut/snip the plant material, the tongue moves it to the back of the mouth where the molars grind it. Without incisors, a herbivore would have a very difficult time getting food into its mouth. And as well some pure herbivores still have canine teeth.
In predatory animals, the canine teeth are used to hold onto the prey animal and the molars/jaws are used to create crush injuries. Canine teeth are used in the catching of food not the eating of food. Human canines are about the same length as the nearby teeth so they've long lost their original function.
Chris
It may be too late,...but when I was a kid my father raised domesticated rabbits. I could pick up the hairless blind widdle ones and it didn't bother mommy. I suspect that if you left them as close as possible to how you found them, mommy would follow her instincts and do what she could to save the brood. If not,...mother nature is not always kind.
We had about a dozen does and one buck. He had black fur except for a white zigzag on his forehead. There were two reasons we called him "Lightning." lol
Like I said, I am certainly not condemning you for any of your practices. But I have to ask something to be sure- do you really consider bacteria and other microorganisms to be sentient?
Chris
Yes, they are sentient beings according to the Dharma teachings. They are the absolutely lowest realm of sentient beings, and it could take billions of eons to get around to being born into a human body, but indeed have that ability. Plants are different. They coexist with sentient beings, but they do not have the consciousness of other life forms. This is a subject which is so vast it would be so hard to explain the details of what is or isn't sentient that it would not be fair to either you, or to the teachings. I don't feel like you are condemning me for my practices. I don't hurt anyone by being Buddhist, so how could anyone say anything negative.
I say if you are interested do some checking for yourself. One thing Buddha of our historical time, back 2,500 years ago always insisted his students check it out and never take his word for it. Buddhism is an active part of life, it's something which grows and grows as the vocabulary of Buddhism grows. It takes years and years.
The main point is, don't kill. Certainly don't kill innocent animals. I find it ghastly that people here are talking about drowning animals as if it was like breathing. Easy to snuff out an animal just like that. I don't know how a person can exist like that. Something is missing. I'm glad I am who I am as well as I believe to live and let live. In my garden, all critters are alive unless they die of natural ways. Just last night two of the cutest baby opossums came up by the house because my husband threw out our parrots left over food from the day and they were eating it. I thought that was the cutest thing I'd seen and I am so pleased they are safe here. That's just my take.
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