Salvaging - A Closer Look

So called "SALVAGE and RESTORATION (of a forest) by my good friend critic from - Texas Don Staples who keeps taking me to task is addressed here.

As the story goes with respect to the plight of the Koala, humans are breaking too many connections too fast. As a result many living things are leaving this earth. If this trend continues, only microscopic living things will remain, and the circle of life will go back to beginning. Dr. Alex L. Shigo. The

The plight of this partially blind koala [see picture here: #431

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] is due to ignorance of tree basics. Koalas eat the leaves of only about six species of Eucalyptus. Man loved the koala's so much, he built his homes close to the Eucalyptus Groves because he wanted to be close to them. But, the Eucalyptus Groves go up very fast and burn very hot. So, out of the ignorance of tree biology, man dug fire trenches. In doing so, the trees were injured below ground (woody and non-woody roots - for starters). When trees are threatened or injured - they do something - they respond. Because of the fire ditches to reduce the threat of fire and over development, most of the leaves on the declining trees in the area tanned. Tanning is a chemical process of combining phenol-based substances with proteins, and the disruption of hydrogen bonds leaves the protein indigestible. In one sense the hydrogen bonds, are held open by toothpicks. The enzymes of the koala would enter to digest the leaves. Tanning is like, removing the toothpicks. The animals ate and ate, but received little nutrition. Lots of moisture, wet spot developed. A spirochete similar to syphilis entered and was passed along by mating. Many koalas died. The good news is that development in the area was not only stopped, but many developed areas will be returned to their original state.

With that said, I think the treatment to once fertile forest, yes even in Texas, such as Don Staples refers to as "SALVAGE AND RESTORATION" per his website, is deforestation. You cannot plant a forest. Yes, I claim he is a crook, to sell people removing everything remaining is restoration by means of salvaging and leads to some sort of improvement of health of trees as well as associates.

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wondered what function wood would play in PROTECTING A FOREST containing any species of trees. So I read some publications that were peer-reviewed in refereed journals. The US FOREST SERVICE has a awesome library system. The researchers are some of the finest in the world. So I decided to document these findings. I prophesize that negative results will happen if Don's salvaging plans are carried out.
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I tried to give page, paragraph and so forth where quotes can be found.

Please think. There is no reason why you cannot think. BTW, all parts of a tree are born alive and trees only absorb water when the roots are growing. This is the beginning of a response to a year of negative criticism from Don Staples and company. There has been a long time battle between Modern Arboriculture and Old Arboriculture in Texas.

Reply to
symplastless
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/home.ccil.org/~treedan

Alright yard man, tell us, what would you do with a tract where bark beetles had destroyed the stand? Other than dissect the trees for what ever use you would have for cutting up thousands of trees killed by the beetles? Just let it stand to rot at its own pace. completely ignoring the right of a land owner to restore his land to production, other than brush?

You are an ignorant, uneducated fool. You pimp Shigo's work and use others work as your own, seems you ignore the fact that some of us are educated in forest management, and not in ridiculous claims on "dissection", Shigo meters, and the rest of which you have not the slightest clue.

Give up your attorney's name, you need to be addressed in court. It is ignorant fools such as yourself that combine lack of education with false environmental doctrine that has been disproved for decades and has led to the decline of private lands..

You need to spend more time across the street in the county hospital.

Reply to
D. Staples

Tree Farming and Related Problems

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John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist
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Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding.

Reply to
symplastless

First thing you will have to do is define what a forest is, then define what a consulting forester is. Then you will have to explain with data backup, just how removing all the wood from a once fertile forest increases forest health.

CHOW

Reply to
symplastless

1 of 16 Note: the Silviculture mentioned with restoration - I will use the definition for salvaging from a website from a recognized consulting forester in Texas, which I would assume is a forestry industry standard. "Salvage and restoration. There comes a time when nature just does not cooperate with the best of management efforts. At that time you may have to salvage whats left, and start anew. Salvage is a very different sales effort for forest products. Usually, the sales material is damaged, dead, or dying. Finding a market for this material can be tricky, and incomes low. But, best to move the material, get it out of the way for future work. Take what income you can from the salvage, and set it aside for planting the site."

I except the definition but I disagree that you can plant a forest and the fact that you may have to remove what is left which in this case would be the old growth conditions (Tionesta)

What tornados do not do, verses doing the following after a tornado. In other words what would removing wood from a tornado swath achieve - I.e., not limited too but including -

The fallen wood will become symplastless, if not already and in contrast, a symplastless tree or log includes a considerable number of living cells, as much 35% of the biomass may be live fungal cells (Franklin, Shugart and Harmon, 1987, pg [Removing this unique feature.]

It's is documented that a large symplastless tree is not a wasted resource; indeed, it continues to function as an important part of a terrestrial or water system, either while remaining on the site at which it once grew, or by becoming a structural part of an aquatic or marine habitat. Our aim is to help anyone interested in perpetual forest productivity to understand the importance of large, symplastless woody debris. (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg 1par5).

[This unique feature will be removed.]

Fallen trees harbor a myriad of organisms, from bacteria and actinomycetes to higher fungi. Of these, only some of the fungi might be noticed by the causal observer as mushrooms or bracket fungi. These structures, however, are merely the fruiting bodies produced by mold colonies within the log. Many fungi fruit within the fallen tree, so they are seen only when the tree is torn apart. Even when a fallen tree is torn apart, only a fraction of the fungi present are noticed because the fruiting bodies of most appear only for a small portion of the year. The smaller organisms, not visible to the unaided eye, are still important components of the system (Maser and Trappe,

1984, pg16-par 5). [This unique feature will be removed]

The flow of plant and animal populations, air, water, and essential elements between a fallen tree and its surroundings increases as decomposition continues (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 12-par1). [This unique feature will be removed]

Fallen trees offer multitudes of both external and internal habitats that change and yet persist through the decades. One needs an understanding of the synergistic affects of constant small changes within a persistent large structure to appreciate the dynamics of a fallen tree and its function in an ecosystem (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 17-par 1). [This unique feature will be removed]

The so called symplastless, still standing trees, yet damaged, still continues to serve several natural functions important to many groups of organisms of the once fertile forest or tree system. ). [This unique feature will be removed]

Eventually the tree falls: the wood is in contact with the soil, again providing another unique ecological situation. Some species such as American chestnut would have served ecological system survival duties for 50 years or more if they were not removed (SHIGO, 1969).

As fallen trees progress from decay class I to class II, the scavengers are replaced by competitors with the enzyme systems needed to decompose the more complex compounds in wood. The fungi involved in this activity are often mutually antagonistic, so that a given part of the tree may be occupied by only one fungus that excludes others by physical or chemical means (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg27-par4). (We call this altered area a niche - See pg70 Modern Arboriculture)(See niche in our

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- Dictionary) [This unique feature will be removed]

Note: Bacteria are very small. They do big things (Shigo, 1999, #216 pg34)

Free-living bacteria in woody residues and soil wood fix 30-60% of the nitrogen in the forest soil. In addition, 20% of soil nitrogen is stored in these components (Harvey et al. 1987). Harmon et al. (1986) reported that CWD accounted for as much as 45% of aboveground stores of organic matter. Symplastless wood in terrestrial ecosystems is a primary location for fungal colonization and often acts as refugia for mycorrhizal fungi during ecosystem disturbance (Triska and Cromack 1979; Harmon et al. 1986; Caza

1993) (Voller and Harrison, 1998). [This unique feature will be removed]

Franklin, et. al. (1987) pg 551 states - With the large array of organisms present in the decaying log, it may be more "alive" than a living bole. In addition to being the habitat of decomposer organisms, symplastless trees provide critical habitat for sheltering and feeding a variety of animal species. [This unique feature will be removed]

Symplastless and symplast containing trees are linked together in the living machinery of a forest (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg25par1). [This unique feature will be removed]

References:

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end of 1 of 16

Reply to
symplastless

Tornado's And Salvaging 2 of 16

Note: the Silviculture mentioned with restoration - I will use the definition for salvaging from a website from a recognized consulting forester in Texas (Don Staples), which I would assume is a forestry industry standard. "Salvage and restoration. There comes a time when nature just does not cooperate with the best of management efforts. At that time you may have to salvage whats left, and start anew. Salvage is a very different sales effort for forest products. Usually, the sales material is damaged, dead, or dying. Finding a market for this material can be tricky, and incomes low. But, best to move the material, get it out of the way for future work. Take what income you can from the salvage, and set it aside for planting the site."

I accept the definition, however, I disagree that you can plant a forest as well as the statement that you may have to remove what is left, which in this case would be the old growth conditions (Tionesta). I use the Tionesta Scenic Area in the Allegheny National Forest as a control. It had a tornado go through in around 1986 and most recently had a blow down. As far as I know nothing has been removed and all ecological stages of trees exist. I did soil sampling in that area in the rhizoplane.

What tornados do not do, verses doing the following after a tornado. In other words what would removing wood from a tornado swath achieve - I.e., not limited too but including -

I believe, Salvaging would alter the carbon to nitrogen ratio over time. Something to keep in mind - Reports from some countries indicate an abundance of soluble nitrogen compounds in runoff water and even in ground water. This is a strong indication that the carbon-nitrogen ratio has been disrupted in the soil. It is well established from studies of the physiology of fungal parasitism that the degree of parasitism is often determined by the carbon-nitrogen ratio. It is probably similar for other organisms (Shigo, 1996).

Salvaging would be removing a storehouse for moisture, which would have provided moisture for plants and animals during dry times such as summer drought, as it may be called (Page-Dumroese, Harvey, Jurgensen and Graham,

1991).

Salvaging would be removing present and future decayed logs, which act like a sponge to absorb water and retain much of the water throughout the following growing season. This water would be a survival feature during drought for members of the system (Page-Dumroese, Harvey, Jurgensen and Graham, 1991).

Too often "drought", what ever they mean, is used by the USFS to describe the cause of mortality to trees, most often in areas that have been Salvaged at one time or another. I would think that the tornado spot has great potential for moisture retention as those 400 increment old fallen hemlock and white pine, which are heartwood forming trees, become like a sponge. These nurse logs may be around for a long time. Does anybody guess how long a nurse log, from a 400 increment old Eastern Hemlock tree, would function let's say with soil contact. After tornado a flush of birch and cherry quickly grew and shaded the soil and nurse logs. I must return again. Last time we had to crawl on hands and knees to get in through the thickets of growth. A unique place to be - for sure. My son and I were in there doing pedology work. Has anyone on this list ever crawled back in to Tionesta?

Just for fun!

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Can someone offer suggestions on benefits of Salvaging and area with respect for the health of the system?

Salvaging this area would be removing materials, that when soil contact was made, would have played key roles with the cation exchange capacity, water - holding capacity, bulk density, essential element and nutrient budgets and erosion potential (Page-Dumroese, Harvey, Jurgensen and Graham, 1991).

Salvaging this area would be removing woody material that has been identified as playing several important roles in the functioning of the region's forests. In southwest Oregon, brown-cubical-rotted CWD acts as a perched water reservoir, the spongy decayed wood being able to hold over twice its own weight in water. This material thus would have otherwise been a major source of moisture for fungi and roots well into the summer drought that characterizes the region (Amaranthus, Trappe and Bednar, 1994). The same has been seen in the Allegheny Mountains in the Cook State Park Forest - Protected area, i.e., protected from Salvaging. Animals also utilize stored water.

Salvaging this area would stop the processes, which would take place between a fallen tree and its surroundings, which would have increased, as decomposition would have continued. E.g., the flow of plant and animal populations, air, water, and essential elements. (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 12). Salvaging kills this system processes by means of disruption and depletion causing dysfunction.

Salvaging this area would remove and reduce the forming of Large Stumps such as in old-growth trees, which are a finite resource, and their loss from the forest affects both soil shear strength and watershed hydrology (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg44-fig2.6).

Salvaging this area would remove CWD, and the associated epiphytic bryophytes, which act as both essential element and moisture buffers for the ecosystems (FEMAT 1993). This buffering would allow the slow release of water and essential elements to surrounding plants. In mature and old growth coastal forests, a large proportion of western hemlock and Sitka spruce seedlings germinate and grow on CWD substrates (Harmon and Franklin

1989; G. Davis, pers. comm., 1994).

Salvaging this area would remove CWD, which would affect temperature as well as moisture, which would have had the capacity to benefit certain beneficial fungi (Amaranthus, Trappe and Bednar, 1994).

Salvaging this area would remove large, fallen trees or trees, in various stages of decay. Salvaging is removing parent material, which would contribute much-needed diversity to terrestrial and aquatic habitats in forests. When most biological activity in soil is limited by low moisture availability in summer, the material removed, fallen tree-soil interface, would have offered a relatively cool, moist habitat for animals and a substrate for microbial and root activity. Intensified utilization and management can deprive future forests of large, fallen trees. The impact of this loss on habitat diversity and on long-term forest productivity must be determined because management needs sound information on which to base resource management decisions (Maser and Trappe, 1984, Abstract-par2).

Salvaging this area would remove wood and its moisture-holding capacity thus eliminating its internal processes and therefore the succession of plants and animals. This affects the biotic community (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg4-par3).

Salvaging this are would remove some snags, which may have accumulated moisture - carried essential elements and had a higher essential element capital when it fell than does a tree with symplast (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg19-par2). Figure that one out!

Salvaging this area would stop colonization of decomposing wood by animals which would have helped microbes to enter interior surfaces of the wood and create additional openings for entry of water and essential elements; and penetration of the wood by roots of trees, such as western hemlock (eastern hemlock in Tionesta and white pine), which in turn facilitates entry by mycorrhizal fungi (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg19-par4).

Salvaging this area would remove many readily available essential elements that support opportunistic colonizers as well as the remaining essential elements, which would be locked in the more decay resistant compounds of the wood. Ultimately, organisms, with more sophisticated enzyme systems would, have succeeded the rapidly growing opportunists. (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg37-par2)

- - - - - - - - People that like to use Webster -

Salvage -

property or goods saved from damage or destruction

save from ruin, destruction, or harm

the act of saving goods or property that were in danger of damage or destruction

- - - - - - - -

Salvaging this area would remove fallen tress or in some cases, future fallen trees that when oriented along the contour of a slope, the upslope side would be filled with humus and inorganic material which would have allowed invertebrates and small vertebrates to tunnel alongside. The down slope side would have provided protective cover for larger vertebrates. When under a closed canopy, such trees would have also been saturated with water and act as a reservoir during the dry part of the year (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg45-par3). Exactly the environment in the swath at Tionesta.

Salvaging this area of so called rotten wood or so called rotten wood to be would be removing something critical as substrate for ectomycorrhizal formation. E.g., in one forest which contained a coniferous stand of trees (Eastern Hemlock and White Pine are coniferous), over 95 percent of all active mycorrhizae were in organic matter of which 21 percent were in decayed wood. In another study in the northern Rocky Mountains, decayed wood in soil was important. In moist, mesic, and arid habitat types (Harvey et al. 1979), it was the most frequent substrate for active ectomycorrhizae on the dry site, probably because of high moisture levels in the wood. Mycorrhizal fungi can colonize logs, presumably using them as sources of water, essential elements and nutrients. (Franklin, Cromack, Kermit, et al. others, 1981).

Where we are. Endangered species. Salvaging this area would remove present and future available moist microhabitats, primarily because of a lack of large logs in intermediate and advanced stages of decay. Aubry et al. (1988) found that some species of salamander were most abundant around CWD. Dupuis (1993) concluded that salamander populations in Salvaged areas were limited by available moist microhabitats, primarily because of a lack of large logs in intermediate and advanced stages of decay (Voller and Harrison, 1998). Note: There are salamander species on T & E list.

Salvaging in both terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems, is removing present and future symplastless wood, which would have functioned as a reservoir of moisture, ameliorating drought conditions and providing a 'perched water table' (Triska and Cromack 1979) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

My conclusion about water: The capacity and ability, of CWD, to provide water / moisture for fauna and flora during dryer times too often goes unobserved, such as the case in this Painter Run Windthrow Salvage Project? Coarse woody debris / ecoart nurse logs play a key role in providing the requirements of water/moisture for survival of species of animals as well as plants, be they listed as threatened and endangered or not. This function it plays a key role during hot, drier times. To fully comprehend the importance one must consider time. This function must be thoroughly considered before making a decision to remove this function from the system or not.

References:

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Case sensitive.

End of 2-16

Reply to
symplastless

"D. Staples" wrote in message news:rtGdnX6WRuI2_fHVnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@posted.telecomsupplyinc...

Tornado's And Salvaging

Note: the Silviculture mentioned with restoration - I will use the definition for salvaging from a website from a recognized consulting forester in Texas, which I would assume is a forestry industry standard.

"Salvage and restoration. There comes a time when nature just does not cooperate with the best of management efforts. At that time you may have to salvage whats left, and start anew. Salvage is a very different sales effort for forest products. Usually, the sales material is damaged, dead, or dying. Finding a market for this material can be tricky, and incomes low. But, best to move the material, get it out of the way for future work. Take what income you can from the salvage, and set it aside for planting the site."

I accept the person's definition, however, I disagree that you can plant a forest as well as the statement that you may have to remove what is left, which in this case would be the old growth conditions (Tionesta). I use the Tionesta Scenic Area in the Allegheny National Forest as a control. It had a tornado go through in around 1986 and most recently had a blow down. As far as I know nothing has been removed and all ecological stages of trees exist. I did soil sampling in that area in the rhizoplane.

Elements, nutrients and food defined: Food is a substance that provides and energy source, mostly. Nutrient is a substance that provides an energy source, elements, and other substances essential for life, in types and amounts that can provide a healthy life. Fertilizer is a substance that provides elements, as salts mostly, or in bonded forms, that require microorganisms to alter to forms that can be absorbed by plants. We cannot and do not feed plants. We add essential elements at Keslick And Son. Trees manufacture their own food and they do not absorb a nutrient or food from the soil. We add essential elements.

If we could feed trees, we would take away the major job of the sun! People who say "plant food" are ignorant about photosynthesis.

In other words: Foods are substances that contain an energy source mostly, and may contain some elements, and other substances. The main part of food is the energy source. There are junk foods, fatty foods, and healthy foods. There are many diet books telling you about healthy foods. Animals can absorb an energy source. Plants cannot absorb an energy source. fertilizers are not plant foods. Fertilizers provide elements essential for growth of plants. The elements are part of salts, usually, that ionize in water. Ions are charged particles; anions, negative, and cations, positive. Plants "make" carbohydrates by trapping the light energy of the sun in a process called photosynthesis. Sad that so many people who work with plants do not know this. They call fertilizers plant food. Very sad.

What tornados do not do, verses doing the following after a tornado. In other words what would salvaging wood from a tornado swath achieve - I.e., not limited too but including -

Salvaging this area would alter the availability in the proper proportions of the right "STEW" - Space, Temperature, Elements and Water over time. It is hard for the energy of the sun to optimally make a tree into the most efficient system on earth when the right amount of essential elements and water has been removed.

Salvaging this area would remove required substrate for a decomposition process where fallen trees release essential elements for microbial and plant growth (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg37-par1). Thus, salvaging would remove essential elements for microbial and plant growth. Elements other than nitrogen such as calcium and magnesium also accumulate in decomposing woody substrate. (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg

16-par2)

Salvaging this area would remove woody duff, which regardless of type or size, takes considerably longer to decompose than needle and leaf duff does. Needles, leaves, and small twigs decompose faster than larger woody material and essential elements are thereby recycled faster in the forest floor. About 140 years are required for essential elements to cycle in large, fallen trees and more than 400 years for such trees to become incorporated into the forest floor; they therefore would interact with the plants and animals of the forest floor and soil over a long period of forest and stand successional history (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988. pg37-par1).

Salvaging this area would remove the capacity of the system to accumulate nitrogen in decaying, fallen trees as well as other significant essential elements such as calcium and magnesium. Although nitrogen fixation in wood is modest compared with that occurring in other substrates in forests, the persistence of decaying wood allows small increments of nitrogen to accrue over many decades (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 16).

Salvaging this area would remove wood that would further decompose which would undergo changes in other chemical constituents and pH as well as physical structure. Very old, decayed wood can even become somewhat humified and leave long lasting substrate resistant to further decay (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 16-par 4).

Salvaging this area would remove trees, which would have been decaying trees. These trees would have comprised considerable accumulations of mass, nutrients and elements. (Maser and Trappe, 1984,pg16-par1).

Note: Some of the largest accumulations occur in the unmanaged forest of the Pacific Northwest. Coarse woody debris can range from 130 to 276 tons per acre in stands from 100 to more than 1,000 years old. Although here we are concerned with Douglas fir, neither decaying wood nor research data are unique to forests of the Pacific Northwest. McFee and Stone (1966) Observed that decaying wood persisted for more than 100 years in New York and others pointed out that substantial accumulations of CWD in old-growth forest in Poland. (Just as Tionesta) These observations evidence the long-term continuity of decaying trees as structural components in forest (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 16-par1).

Salvaging this area would remove present and future decaying logs on or which would become a part of the forest floor, which would have been a reservoir for nutrients as well as essential elements. (Page-Dumroese, Harvey, Jurgensen and Graham, 1991).

Salvaging this area would remove what would naturally reduce erosion and affect soil development, store nutrients and water, provide a source of energy and essential element flow, serve as seedbeds, and provide habitat for decomposers and heterotrophs (Harmon and Hua, 1991).

Salvaging this area would reduce the pool of stable nutrients. An important feature of woody debris is that nutrients are released at slower rates than from fine duff. This slow release allows essential elements to be retained within the ecosystem until tree production recovers. Timber harvest and salvage after disturbance reduces this pool of stable essential elements (Harmon and Hua, 1991).

Salvaging this area would stop the decomposition of logs and other forms of coarse woody debris which reduce erosion, affect soil development, store essential elements and water, are a potentially large source of energy (nutrients - food) and essential elements, serve as a seed bed for plants, and form an important habitat for fungi and arthropods. Note: Despite growing recognition that symplastless trees play major roles in ecosystem function, many aspects of the specific processes involved are poorly understood. Consider, for example, the importance of CWD in forest essential element cycles. Aside from nitrogen fixation, few studies have directly examined the processes responsible for the net changes in essential element content of decaying wood. The actual proportion of tree nutrition that is derived from CWD is not known (Kropp, 1982).

Thus, salvaging would increase soil erosion at the time and over time.

Salvaging this area would stop the processes, which would take place between a fallen tree and its surroundings, which would have increased, as decomposition would have continued. E.g., the flow of plant and animal populations, air, water, and essential elements. (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 12-par1). Salvaging kills this system processes by means of disruption and depletion causing dysfunction.

Salvaging this area would remove structural components of great importance for forest dynamics and forest biodiversity. The decomposition of trees removed would have provided an important link in cycling on nutrients and essential elements in the ecosystem. In addition, many species of plants, fungi and animals are dependent on symplastless trees for nutrients, essential elements, habitat or substrate and nesting (Kruys and Jonsson,

1999).

Salvaging this area would remove logs, which would have helped reduce erosion by forming "a barrier to creeping and raveling soils (Maser and Trappe, 1984 pg4-par1).

Salvaging this area would increase the loss nutrients and essential elements from the site. Such spots would have been excellent for the establishment and growth of vegetation, including tree seedlings. Vegetation would have been established on and help stabilize this "new soil", and as invertebrates and small vertebrates would have begun to burrow into the new soil, they would not only have nutritionally enriched it with their feces and urine but also constantly mixed it by their burrowing activities (Maser and Trappe,

1984 pg 4-par1-2).

Salvaging this area would remove the habitat, i.e., the would be creations, of inner space within a log, as it would decompose, which many organisms such as plant roots, mites, collembolans, amphibians, and small mammals, must await to enter. The flow of plant and animal populations, air, water, and nutrients as well as essential elements between fallen tree and its surrounding would have increased if aging process continued and the area was not salvaged. (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 12).

Salvaging this area would remove the sponge like mass, which would gather and store moisture and essential elements. Duff fall and throughfall are major pathways for the flow of essential elements and energy within forests, they contribute essential elements, nutrients and water to so called rotten wood. The larger a fallen tree, the more duff it accumulates on its surface and the more essential element rich moisture it intercepts from the canopy. The moisture gathers essential elements as it passes through the accumulated duff and soaks into the fallen tree (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 19-par 2).

Salvaging this area would remove CWD, which the associated epiphytic bryophytes would have acted as both essential element and moisture buffers for the ecosystems (FEMAT 1993). This buffering would have allowed the slow release of water and essential elements to surrounding plants. In mature and old growth coastal forests, a large proportion of western hemlock and Sitka spruce seedlings germinate and grow on CWD substrates (Harmon and Franklin 1989; G. Davis, pers. comm., 1994).

Salvaging this area would alter the chemistry of the system. The main chemical differences among substrates are: (1) nitrogen content; (2) mineral or ash content-phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium; (3) the carbon matrix-cellulose, lignin, pentosans and (4) the content of other organic compounds-waxes, pigments, carbohydrates, fats, resins, phenolic compounds (Maser and Trappe, 1984 pg11 par 2).

Salvaging this area would alter the amount of nitrogen, however, besides Nitrogen, Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium, and Phosphorus and other essential elements play key roles in soil, plant and tree health as well as the other associated living organisms (Page-Dumroese, Harvey, Jurgensen and Graham,

1991).

Salvaging this area would remove initial, optimal and final stages of fallen trees. Plant - nutrient / essential elements - and the succession of plants on fallen trees is mediated by changes in essential element availability and physical properties over time. Three broad phases can be defined: initial, optimal, final. Early invaders prepare the tree for later colonization by altering its physical and chemical properties during the initial phase. The altered tree provides the best substrate for a wide array of organisms during the optimal phase. Ultimately, the depletion of essential elements and physical deterioration of the wood during the optimal phase diminish its value for many organisms, so fewer species inhabit the final phase (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 25-par 5).

Salvaging this area would remove CWD, which has the potential to store a large amount of carbon in the ecosystem. The role of coarse woody debris in storing carbon is often overlooked, with only living plants or soil carbon being considered. Relatively little is known about the formation and rate of decay of coarse woody debris or the factors controlling these processes, despite the relevance of this information to the global carbon cycle (Harmon and Hua, 1991).

Salvaging this area would remove future savings accounts of essential elements and organic material in the forest soil. The decomposing wood of a fallen tree serves as the latter (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 16-par1). Elements other than nitrogen such as calcium and magnesium, also accumulate in decomposing woody substrate. (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 16-par2)

Salvaging this area would remove the interactions of fallen trees which interact with essential element cycling processes in a forest through such mechanisms as duff fall (freshly fallen or slightly decomposed plant material from the canopy), throughfall (rain or dew that picks up elements as it falls through the canopy), nitrogen fixation, and essential element uptake by plants associated with the fallen trees (Maser and Trappe, 1984,

19-par2).

Salvaging this area would remove opportunities that ground contact by fallen trees creates for various interactions with the biotic components of soil and duff. Fungi, for instance, would translocate essential elements within the soil- system, as both decomposers and root symbionts. Fungi would also immobilize translocated essential elements and thereby enrich the decomposing wood substrates they inhabit. In addition, the colonization of decomposing fallen trees by nitrogen-fixing bacteria permits additional nitrogen accretion within the decaying wood (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg

19-par 3).

Salvaging this area would remove the external succession processes and benefits of CWD, which is related to the changes that take place in the plant community surrounding a fallen tree (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 38-par

1).

Salvaging this area would remove connectors. A fallen tree is a connector between the successional stages of a community; it would have provided continuity of habitat from the previous forest through subsequent successional stages (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 38-par 1).

Salvaging this area would remove large, would be, fallen or already fallen tree, which would have provided a physical link - an essential element savings account - through time and across successional stages. Because of its persistence, the log or logs would have provided a long- term, stable structure on which some animal (both invertebrate and vertebrate) populations appear to depend on for survival (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg

38-par 1).

Salvaging this area would remove humus forming materials, which would have been important in regulating the incorporation of nitrogen into humic materials. Because of its high cation exchange capacity and slow decomposition, so called rotten wood, or chemically altered wood, if you please, can retain available mineral nitrogen from throughfall and decomposition as well as organic nitrogen compounds mineralized within the wood chemical matrix (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg40-par2).

Salvaging this area would remove materials, which roots and mycorrhizae, of plant species that colonize decaying wood, use for its available nitrogen (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg40-par2).

Salvaging this area would alter humic acids, which slow decomposition reactions in soils. (Shigo, 1999, pg110-#666)

Salvaging this area would remove materials downed, which would have had a long-term input of nitrogen fixation.

Salvaging this area would alter a positive attempt of balance of nitrogen in the ecosystem. Salvaging is removing the long term input by nitrogen fixation in falling trees as they are being chemically altered by the succession of microorganisms as well as organisms, which is a highly ordered arrangement. And by canopy inhibiting lichens, which maintain such input (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg40-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove of materials that would have had long-term potential for contributing nitrogen for tree growth as residual lignin and humus are decomposed (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988, pg41-par1).

Salvaging this area would remove what would be equal to slow release fertilizer for once fertile forest (Many salts of essential elements over time). With respect to tree maturity, habitats, both external and internal, are influenced by tree size - maturity (Internal Regulating System - Dynamic to Static Mass). An uninterrupted supply of new, immature wood in young forests decomposes and recycles essential elements and energy rapidly. Habitats provided by the death of the symplast of young trees are short-lived and rapidly changing. (E.g., specifically speaking, species of young trees, which produce protection wood such as heartwood, would have not formed heartwood). In contrast, the less frequent, more irregular mortality of the symplast of large trees in old forests is analogous to slow-release fertilization. (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe and Franklin, 1988,pg44-par2). Salvaging reduces the amount and quality of humus like materials.

Salvaging this area would remove materials that in time would be decaying and would have contributed to long-term accumulation of soil organic matter, partly because the carbon constituents of the future well-decayed wood would have 80-90 percent residual lignin and humus (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988, pg44-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would be incorporated in the soil and would have aided the establishment of conifer seedlings and mycorrhizal fungi on dry sites. (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin,

1988, pg44-par3).

Salvaging this area would remove material that in time would have added to spatial, chemical, and biotic diversity of forest soils, and to the processes that maintain long-term forest productivity (Maser, Tarrant, Trappe, and Franklin, 1988. pg44-par3).

I did not intend to address methods or other components of salvaging processes in this paper, just what is being removed and its chemistry. As is salvaging within the ANF, machine is used for several treatments (sorry). Machine entry on an area, which contains trees, reduces diversity because heavy equipment fragments and scatters class IV and V so called rotten wood. Habitat diversity declines to a fraction of what had been available, probably fewer kinds of organisms can thrive. Further, because woody substrates serve as long-term soil organic material and essential element reservoirs, increasingly intensive timber management, coupled with shorter rotations, could significantly alter the role of decaying wood in the essential element cycling processes (Maser and Trappe, 1984, pg 48-par 1).

Salvaging this area would remove critical material, which would have served for mycorrhizal fungi, which can colonize logs, presumably using them as sources of water and essential elements. (Franklin, Cromack, Kermit, et al. others, 1981).

Salvaging this area would remove a significant factor in essential element cycling processes (Harmon et al. 1986; Caza 1993). Although the relative concentration of essential elements in wood and bark is low, much of the essential elements capital and carbon are stored here because of the large biomass involved (Harmon et al. 1986; Caza 1993) (Voller and Harrison,

1998).

Salvaging this area would remove symplastless wood, which would have facilitated a slow release of essential elements, ameliorated leaching, and provided a growing substrate for bryophytes (Harmon et al. 1986; FEMAT 1993; Samuelsson et al. 1994) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would buffer water and essential element release from duff and aboveground processes, especially processes such as nitrogen fixation in aboveground plants such as hepatics (Harmon et al. 1986; FEMAT 1993; Samuelsson et al. 1994) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Bacteria are very small. They do big things (Shigo, 1999, #216 pg34)

Salvaging this area would remove habitat for free-living bacteria, which in woody residues and soil wood fix 30-60% of the nitrogen in the forest soil. In addition, 20% of soil nitrogen is stored in these components (Harvey et al. 1987). Harmon et al. (1986) reported that CWD accounted for as much as

45% of aboveground stores of organic matter. Symplastless wood in terrestrial ecosystems is a primary location for fungal colonization and often acts as refugia for mycorrhizal fungi during ecosystem disturbance (Triska and Cromack 1979; Harmon et al. 1986; Caza 1993) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Salvaging this area would remove one of the suspected, most important stages in essential element cycling by the colonization of symplastless wood by fungi and microbes (Caza 1993); however, these processes are still relatively poorly understood. In fact soil wood contains a disproportionate amount of the coniferous non-woody roots or ectomycorrhizae in forests (Harvey et al. 1987). As one of the dominant sources of organic matter, salvaging removes symplastless wood, which would have had an important determinant in soil formation and composition (Caza 1993) (Voller and Harrison, 1998)

Salvaging this area would remove symplastless wood which would have provided physical structure to the ecosystem and filled such roles as sediment storage (Wilford 1984), protecting the forest floor from mineral soil erosion and mechanical disturbance during harvesting activities (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Salvaging this area would remove material that would ameliorate the affects of cold air drainage on plants, helps stabilize slopes, and minimizes soil erosion (Maser et al. 1988) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Salvaging this area would remove symplastless wood, which would provide elevated germination platforms with reduced duff fall accumulation and relatively consistent moisture regimes (Harmon et al. 1986; Maser et al.

1988; Caza 1993; D.F. Fraser, pers. comm., 1995) (Voller and Harrison, 1998).

Conclusion: The capacity and ability, of CWD, to function as a nutrient and essential element storehouse, too often goes unobserved such as in salvaging. Technical reports clearly point out that the long term continuity of decaying trees are structural components of forests. CWD are reservoirs for nutrients as well as essential elements for long periods of time. CWD provides a source of energy and essential element flow. Timber harvest and salvage after disturbances reduces pool of stable nutrients and essential elements. Symplastless trees are structural components of great importance for forest dynamics and forest biodiversity. Many species of plants, fungi and animals are dependent on symplastless trees for nutrients, essential elements, habitat or substrate and nesting. The benefits and their persistence, in the cycling of essential elements and providing nutrients is a function which contributes to system health and a obligatory function to operate at a high quality state, i.e., operating about the means in which is was designed. Therefore the removal of such materials that would provide a physical link - an essential element savings account - through time and across successional stages is not indicative or technically published to be, a treatment, which would protect or increase forest health. In all honestly, it will reduce protection thus forest health as well.

End 3 of 16 More to come.

Reply to
symplastless

You EXCEPT the definition? You dumb ass, what do you do with 500 dead trees falling on an acre of land? What use does a landowner have for a tinder box of dead wood?

Reply to
Don Staples

Same as above, you dumb ass.

Reply to
Don Staples

Same as above, you dumb ass.

Reply to
Don Staples

Hey, dumb ass, you want me to give you a college degree in forestry on this board? Show us your education so I know where to start. Right now it looks like some where around the fifth grade.

Reply to
Don Staples

Out of curiosity Don, are you a member of the Forest Stewardship Council? Do you use their services often? How would you characterize them? Please respond when you get a chance.

Reply to
Billy

My thinking is in terms of an ecosystem, not just the forest and its trees. In the hill country of central Texas, there are 2 predominant trees. One is the juniper ashe (cedar), and the other is the live oak. No sooner folks buy their 5, 10, or 20 acre plot of land; they are out there clearing out all the "cedars", and undergrowth. There's no more hiding places for the white-tailed deer, the jackrabbits, the "coons", and possums. Before clearing, the white-tailed deer have regular routes in foraging. As a consequence, they (deer) either change their route, or, disappear from the area completely. Yet, the same people, if asked why they moved out here, say they love seeing the deer among other reasons. I shake my head in disgust of their ignorance. Basically, it looks like a mild open desert with trees (live oaks) here and there when done. Automobiles have pretty much decimated the armadillo in Texas. Another Texas native, the roadrunner, is slowly dying away.

If you want a project, suggest researching the ecosystem of Central Texas. In particular, the relationship between juniper ashe, the live oak, and various sundry undergrowth with wildlife. Texas A&M, the common source of tree, and other plant life knowledge here, is more concerned with how stuff affects people's lives and targets single species, not the ecosystem during their research projects. As you advertise being a professional, I thought would be appropriate for you.

Texas is basically divided into a few general areas regarding natively growing trees. East, the piney woods. Coastal, generally mesquite and a few oaks. Told you about Central Texas. North is generally a plains area. West, generally desert. So, you have to be more specific when targeting Texas regarding "forest".

Reply to
Dioclese

their requirements. You think wood is dead, I think you need to go to school and study the ecological stages of trees and their associates before you offer people advice on managing the ecological stages of trees. What do you do for a living? You surely don't depend on your knowledge of trees to support yourself.

Reply to
symplastless

Answer the questions, dumb ass.

Reply to
D. Staples

Way I look at, its a matter of convenience for the landowner not to wait for natural conditions for natural recovery in regards to commercial enterprise.

There's no reason for unused land not to follow natural conditions for recovery.

Reply to
Dioclese

could there possibly be other than salvage and restore as stated on your website.

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Which means remove all substrate for the base of the food web. And you call me a fool?

From you Don, I see that's the only treatment know or understand to do, i.e., get the wood out. You call me a yardman. Not a bad thing to be especially having a background in tree biology. What a great place to apply what I have come to understanding with Tree Biology coming of age.

Research and publications suggest that Course woody debris help in the succession of plant life after a disturbance such as but not limited too, tornado's, waves of insects, fire, etc. Your salvaging does not address these issues.

To answer your question I would contact a few friends in the US FOREST SERVICE research department and come up with a treatment plan based on a thorough understanding of tree biology. I hope I addressed your question

BTW Don, Happy Fourth. I would stand by you if this country was ever invaded. Have a great day!

Reply to
symplastless

The US Forest Service recommends salvage, dumb ass.

When are you going to take your Arborist exam again, dumb ass?

Reply to
Don Staples

I just threw up in my mouth a little! Euuuuueeewww.

I think I'm done. He's in the bin. I just can't stand him any more.

Happy Independence Day! Me, I'd run the other way if this country was invaded. I am going to run before it happens. We're looking at Costa Rica and Belize...or the Pacific Northwest in Canada.

If we really can't stand even to be on this continent, Italy or France. All those formal Mediterranean gardens; his head would explode!

v
Reply to
Jangchub

Does that mean strip cutting the forest, removal of all habitat and leaving the ground subject to erosion? Loss of habitat would reduce hunting and erosion could affect water quality for others.

Reply to
Billy

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