Portable Home Generator Questions

[HeyBub]

Yep. Even during the oil embargo under Carter, there was no shortage of gasoline - there was only a shortage of CHEAP gasoline.

[clare]

Particularly true of engines that do not get up to full operating temperature.

Propane, being a "dry gas" does not have this problem. Nor does CNG.

[Jay-T]

Try doing the math again. Instead of the same 5 cents per gallon the station would ordinarily get, they would get an an additional $1.00 per gallon during the emergency in the plan I described. Three 8,000 gallon tanks equals 24,000 gallons times $1.00 per gallon extra equals $24,000 for going down there and keeping the station open with their emergency generator during the power outage. And it doesn't take 10 minutes per 10 gallon max fill-up. And, yes, the tankers can keep delivering to the gas stations so they do not need to run out of gas.

My point is simply that having 24,000 gallons of gas stored in each gas station's underground tanks that cannot be used by anyone during a natural disaster with a power outage, simply because the station doesn't have a portable generator, is silly. My plan would require all gas stations to have a backup generator, would pay part or all of the initial cost of the generator setup through emergency preparedness funds, and would enable gas stations during a declared emergency to charge more for gas during the emergency as an incentive to stay open but without overly gouging customers.

[PeterD]

Diesel engines are so efficient that at unloaded idle they barely get warm. I've got engines that you can touch the exhaust manifold if they have only been idling, even 10 minutes after starting. (pretty amazing).

True...

Best fix is simply to make sure the generator is loaded during exercising runs. The rule that I have is the run is 45 minutes, 15 minutes pre-online to get warmed up some, and to allow checking of everything, then 30 minutes full load (or as close as I can get to full load). Then a proper shutdown, and I'm set for the next exercise run (or next power failure!)

[PeterD]

Require is a difficult thing.

Using government funds to benefit a specific group (gas station owners) is outragous.

The incentive is the same one as any business: profit and loss. No need to 'require'. No need to corrupt the public system by misspending tax dollars for a private business.

And, finally, if people were able (willing, and understood it is required) to be more prepared for emergencies things would go better. Instead people look to the government to hold their hands at the slightest provocation, and take little or no responsibility for what happens.

As we've been discussing, get a diesel generator, a 275 gallon fuel oil tank, keep the tank full, and don't worry about the gas stations. And don't worry about the neighbors--if they want to come over to watch TV, tell 'em to bring food for everyone, or just charge admission!

[hallerb]

In Florida gas stations are required to have emergency generators!!!

Otherwise in a evacuation people will run out of gas get stranded and perhaps clog roads:( causing massive jams so others CANT get out:(

Really they should be REQUIRED nationwide.

Since we KNOW the terrorists WILL hit again!

any area may need evacuated and sadly our country is not prepared.......

[Chas Hurst]

If one of the gas stations on a corner opens for business because the owner/operator had the foresight to get a stand-by generator, the others would be following shortly without the force of "require".

[James]

Again, I thank everyone for the various info and advice. One more clarification at this point....

I do have an oil tank that I use for heating, with K1 oil. It seems that someone one here said that you can burn k1 in a diesel, but that doesn't sound right to me.

Because of the limitations on storing gas, I am leaning toward a propane generator, but the diesel also sounds attractive...... it would be a strong choice if I could use the same k1 for my heat and generator.

Thanks

James

[hallerb]

=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDIt seems that

My understanding is K1 is kerosene. A good friend uses K1 in his oil burning furnace in a pinch

[Chas Hurst]

The use of K1 would depend on the diesel engine. Some can burn K1 -kerosene- some cannot. Can you burn #2 heating oil in your heater?

[Ralph Mowery]

You can use some heating oils in the generators. I think it is the home heating oil that has dye added to it so the trucks will not use the untaxed fuel. I usually get that back wards.

I don't recall how much you wanted to put in a system. There are some portable units that can cost a lot and some fixed units for the house that are not all that much more. You are going to spend about $ 2000 to $ 30000 for the fixed units for a 8 to 10 kw natural gas/propane units not counting the tanks and wiring. The portable units start around $ 500 to $ 1000 for the 5 kw gas units. I did see a Diesel portable unit for about $ 1400 rated at 5 kw.

[Ralph Mowery]

I have not researched it, but maybe there is some confusion in the K1 kerosene and the # 1 fuel oil. Both have been used for home heating over the years, but not sure if there is a differance in the two or not.

[Stormin Mormon]

Another liberal demanding that government force business to spend money. You're Un-American.

[Stormin Mormon]

Especially if the free market forces were unrestrained. Gas stations could charge hurricane prices, and pay for the generator that way.

[Stormin Mormon]

Please do some internet research, and make a few calls. I've used kerosene in a fuel oil furnace. Fuel oil and diesel are close enough to be interchangale, though not for on the road use.

[Chas Hurst]

In my area #2 heating oil IS #2 diesel. It's dyed red and is sold for off road use. The red dye indicates it is untaxed. Undyed fuel is sold for road use in cars and trucks; blue dyed fuel is sold for marine use.

[James]

but of course, # 2 is not the same as #1, which is what I have.

James

---------------------------------------- In my area #2 heating oil IS #2 diesel. It's dyed red and is sold for off road use. The red dye indicates it is untaxed. Undyed fuel is sold for road use in cars and trucks; blue dyed fuel is sold for marine use.

[PeterD]

The only answer which is correct is to ask the maker of the generator if it is acceptable. Some will run OK on it, some will not. My diesel generator will run on JP-1 (which is basically kerosene with some anit-ice additives), but it is very clear that doing so is not good! (Lack of lubrication). I'm not sure (exactly, that is) what K1 is, but I think it is a kero/fuel oil mix. Find the ratio that they are using, that will be a question the generator maker will ask. You may be able to add a lubricant to the fuel oil tank when it is filled to fix lubrication problems.

Unless you can get the propane tank next to the generator, I don't think that's an option.

[PeterD]

Kerosene has fewer lubricants (wax) than fuel oil. Fuel oil (residential) is basically standard diesel fuel that is not-road taxed. It runs diesel engines just fine.

Most users use a mix of kero and fuel oil... Kero has much less heat value than fuel oil, but for tanks that are outdoors there can be problems with straight fuel oil freezing. The mix prevents that.

[James]

PeterD, I am not sure of your point in this sentence.....

------------

Unless you can get the propane tank next to the generator, I don't think that's an option.

--------------------- Why do you think a gas company will not run a line underground to a generator a hundred feet away ?

James