Modular Homes Suck!

Beware:

Do not buy a modular home until you hear of our nightmare experience. The home we poor sods bought was built by ProBuilt Homes; Miffleton, Pa. Our dealer was New Millenium; Warner, NH. The following are some of the problems we encountered. Some of the problems took longer then a year to develop or building systems (ie. siding) needed to be dismantled to find the error. Still, they won't fix the problems. Instead we are referred to the home warranty people, but they know full well the home warranty does not cover our requested complaints (ie the home warranty does not cover siding, ventilation, moisture problems).

1. All exterior doors out of square.

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get caught.

Good conscience? bwa-ha-ha-ha!

What did the home warranty people say, when you asked them? You forgot to add that to your rant.

As to your problems, if you really feel you were treated unfairly, then hire an lawyer and file for relief. There is a method to resolve these types of problems, and you are not following the methods to speak of.

You need someone who is independant of you and the builder to evaluate the situation, do that first.

How hard could this be. Set it on fire, go to dinner.

On a number of occasions, I've had modular homes salesmen give me this BS that their product costs less than site built because they are built in a factory under controlled conditions. Fact is, they often cost less because they are slapped together garbage--if a decent contractor was asked to produce a home of the same design and quality as many of the modular homes we see, his price would be competitive. In construction, time is money. The only way to put out a quality product is by spending more time on the details, and that is going to cost more. That's the way it is.

And I've seen a lot of pretty shabby stick-built construction done that way and worse.

So what's your point? That some people use s***ty materials? Or poor QC?

Well DUH!

In a small town south of here, an entire subdivision was built so shabbily the over 50% go up and walked away. (Not related to interest rates). The truth is, there are some poor modular manufacturers and some poor general contractors. And conversely, there are some excellent ones as well.

My former secretary and her husband put a mod on their lake property and it's a beautiful home; better than the neighbors which was site built. Yes they did have a few problems as I recall, but the manufacturer replaced four rooms of carpeting an some other stuff. (Carpet didn't match as I recall).

Anyways they came away with a nice raised ranch with walk-out basement in a channel lot and they figured they saved over $40k vs. what the site built contractors had quoted. (Their figures, not mine).

Sorry you are having so many problems with your new home (new homes always have problems if you didn't know.) When I built my current home, the contractor put the concrete patio in the wrong location! I made him repour it and part of it is now 8" deep. (Actually there was a whole list, some they fixed, some they wimped out of fixing, such is the reality of construction.)

As your door leak it sounds to me as if the foundation isn't level (major reason for windows no working). Doors are prehung and built square by the door manufacture. A home not setting level with spring the doors (and possibly windows) very quickly. (Drywall cracks as well).

In any case I wouldn't sit around whining about the problem, I would get a tube of exterior silicone caulk and seal up around the doors to prevent the leaks. (I would also check the windows as well). You are not just a consumer but also a homeowner; and you must take responsibility to make repairs to the more serious problems, no matter who's at fault.

The condensation in the attic is serious. It sounds like it's not a lack of insulation, rather a lack of ventilation. In any case, this is serious and will become even more of a problem. You need more ventilation in the attic. (Could be a code issue).

As to the floor, the were willing to replace it and you said no. Now you still have a defective floor. (Not certain as to what you meant by "inferior flooring".)

The rest of your complaints are either too vague or nonsense.

You're missing my point. I have sat through sales presentations from modular salesman whose basic premise is that through the miracles of factory production methods, economies of scale, etc, they can supply this fantastic home for a low, low price. I say that the low price is often reached by slapping together garbage, cheap materials, cutting corners, etc. Not really much different than a site built home. Time is money, and quality takes time.

I agree with Dennis that there are some decent modulars out there. And of course there are shoddy contractors.

Well, you need to get out more.

Factory built frames and trusses are FAR better than site built.

Just like any manufactured items, some are better than others.

Using good material, factory built can be up in about 1/3 the time of conventional, and you don;t have to worry about weather, pillferage, etc.

Time is money and labor is time consuming.

So don't lump them all together and generalize based on very limited experience.

Matt, that simply isn't true. I have looked at a number of panelized houses (high end custom houses), and as for fit, finish, straightness etc. of the framing, they just don't compare to a good custom frame job done on site. They go up fast, they get dried in fast, but don't try to tell me that they are better. They're just not.

Last winter I built a custom house right next door to a $800,000 panel house, and by the end the owner of the panel house would come over and look at the one we were working on and I could tell he realized he made a mistake. All you had to do is stand at a corner and sight down a wall and look at the whoops. He had a good contractor, but if the panel is put together with crooked studs and plates in them, you're screwed. Factory or no, the lumber comes from trees. That's not the only story I've heard like that.

Of course you must realize that most roofs are put together with factory built trusses. It's been that way for quite a while.

See you later.

They can't be. It would violate the laws of physics.

You may not realize it, but you just contradicted yourself.

Think about why the automotive and other precision industries do their manufacturing on CAM and robotics.

I'd like to end my posting on this thread by pointing out that modular homes and panelized homes are another step in a long succession of changes that started back when carpenters quit fitting studs with mortise and tenon joints and started using nails. Less craftsmanship required and a lower quality end product. Yes there are exceptions to that last sentence (roof trusses come to mind). These changes have been brought about by economic forces. I'm not saying we should go back to the old days, but it is sad when you think of it. We have a

Matt, get the last word if you want. I really think flame wars are pretty silly. I'm a carpenter who has been observing the industry for some years now. I'll stand by what I post.

I think this thread is an interesting commentary on general building construction in a time when quality home builders must compete with low-cost builders of varying stripes.

When building my home in 2004, I took great pains to gather "best practice" information from books and this very newsgroup. I was amazed to see, hear and read the varying "opinons" about how to do things. While installing our Tyvek, windows and window flashing, I had a friend (full-time school teacher who worked for a low-cost builder framing houses in the summer) to help. He commented that we were going above and beyond what his company was doing when installing house wrap and windows, namely the window flashing and insulation. He said that his company stapled up the housewrap and nailed in the windows, and installed the vinyl siding. They didn't take the time to lap the top piece of housewrap over the lip of the window frame. In a few years, I'm sure most of the framing around the windows, particularly the sills, would be rotten.

The point is this.. he said that on his construction crew, there were a couple quality carpenters, a few guys like him (part-time summer help, college students, etc.), and a bunch of yahoos who could swing a hammer and needed a job between jail stints. You get what you pay for.

Understand, too, "boom and bust" cycles and how they affect building cost as well as how much trouble the builder is going to go through.

As well, if a "good contractor" is using s***ty material, or worse, does not recognize s***ty material, he's no long a "good contractor".

Finally, as an analogy, if 10 of the 60 some odd car manufacturers are using low grade material and processes, it sonly speaks for those 10, not the industry as a whole.

"marson" misses these points at every turn.

Just one more example of good old American disposable housing. Doesn't matter if it's modular or site built, there are a lot of bad builders and some bad materials that do not have any room for error when installed. And since the installers are often unskilled and uncaring, they makes lots of errors. Then the errors are covered up, to rear their ugly heads just after the warranty runs out.

Not that it'll help THIS guy, but just FYI for anyone else, put notification of defects in writing and send it Certified Return Receipt Mail so you can prove they were notified within the warranty period. A good paper trail has saved many people's cases, but it's an uphill battle in any case.

One reason it's so hard is that there is surprisingly little accountability for bad builders, something that often comes as a surprise to the homeowner with a problem.

Also, the homeowner often can't sue due to mandatory binding arbitration clauses common in construction and warranty contracts. When their right to sue is gone, the builder knows disputes will be forced into private arbitration where the company usually wins, and the incident is hidden from public view in all but one state. "Wins" in arbitration typically only pay a fraction of actual damages, too. This is why the clause is in so many builder contracts and home warranties.

Last but not least, a home buyer needs to either BE an expert or HIRE an expert, to oversee c> Beware: =A0 Do not buy a modular home until you learn of our nightmare > experience.

Really? Where is that?

On what planet?

On what planet?

Nice Pics. That factory-built quality is great! Just like a Mercedes Benz, hey Matt!!

Several points:

Lacking insulation will not cause moisture to form on the underside of the deck. Older homes that have no ceiling insulation remain bone dry. The issue is air leakage up through the house carrying warm moist air or a roof leak. The basement being dry may be because the volume of air flowing up through the house is bringing in enough cool air from out side. As the cold air is raised in temperature the % or relative humidity is decreased. And this keeps the basement dry in the winter. It then takes on the moisture from the basement and what the occupants add. When it exits the structure in the winter the temperature decreases, thus increasing the RH%. If the RH reaches

Most homes have a variety of holes (1,000's). The plumbing and electrical penetrations in both floor and ceiling of the structure. In a modular home where the two or more sections come together can have a large opening from the bottom to the top. Many think stuffing insulation in the gaps works. Loose fill or batt insulation does not stop air flow. One needs to use a solid material such as, caulk, spray foam, and for large holes use a sheet material (metal, plywood, OSB etc.) and then foam or caulk the edges.

Then there is duct leakage, does your house has ducts? When ducts leak they can be a large driving force, forcing infiltration and exfiltration. If the dominate duct leakage is in the return and they are technically outside the house (may actually reside inside the structure but be technically outside) the house will go positive and push warm moist air out. If the dominate duct leakage is in the supply ducts and they are technically outside the house (may actually reside inside the structure but be technically outside) the house will go negative.

Then there are pressures across doors. Most forced air heating systems have a single return. When a door to a room is closed and the heating system runs it pressurizes the room forcing air out. It takes the path of least resistance. Some of this air leaves the structure, into the attic, walls etc. This then causes a negative pressure in the area with the return is. In turn it gets its air from the path of least resistance. So some rooms are forcing air out of the house while others are pulling air in.

Are there bath and kitchen vent fans and do they actually vent to the outside? Are the seams on the vents sealed? And a bathroom with a window does not count, it needs a real fan. Fans must provide 8 air changes per hour and be on a timer to run at least 20 minutes after the occupant leaves the space.

All of this should be left to the professional. One needs a Blower Door, a Duct Tester, an Infrared camera is also helpful and the knowledge to use them. When one seals leaks in a structure it changes the dynamics and needs to be retested.

When the house is out of balance many things can happen. Natural draft appliances can back draft causing CO poisoning, water heater can, if the pressures are high enough can have flame roll out. Warm moist air can be forced in to cold cavities where the lower temperature can cause condensation and rotting.

Andy W

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, If it's any consolation, I know people who had similar experiences with brand new site built homes and manufactured homes falling apart on them in their first year.

Charlie Camp Atlantic Mortgage Satellite Beach, Fl