i see what you're saying now. BUT. Real life is that most houses have edison circuits in the kitchen and Real life is, that most people don't poke around trying to do their own electrical repair. So , real life is that the chances of the wire getting on the wrong leg is pretty minimal. and REal life is that most people don't draw enough current in the kitchen all at once to overload the neutral even if the hots did end up on the same leg.
12 ga wire will take a lot more than 20 amps in real life.
We can agree to disagree. I don't think that future ignorance of electrical workers is a sufficient reason to rule out multiwire branch circuits (Edison circuits). There is a non-trivial benefit to using them, in terms of the resources saved, copper. Plus whenever both legs are drawing simultaneously, the voltage drop in the circuit is less than it would be with two separate circuits.
In real life houses burn down, with a determineation 'wiring or electrical fault'...
We're spinning our wheels here, you won't convince me, and I won't convince you. I can only hope that I convince someone else, and in doing so some day in the distant future (after I've died of old age, so not that long from now) someone else won't have to deal with a shocking experience, or worse.
This may have already been addressed by a real electrician but ALL kitchen countertop recptacles MUST be GFCI protected.
Therefore, you cannot use 12/3 NM as then you would be sharing a nuetral which will cause "nuisance" tripping of GFI's.
They do make 12/2/2 or somecall it 12/4. There would then be 2 separate 20 amp circuits in one cable. There is a red, a black, a white, and a white with a red stripe so you can ID it and of course a bare ground.
The NEC requies at least 2 small appliance 20 amp circuits in kitchens. You would probably put the fridge on the line side or I prefer running a 20 just for that and also the MW which can be a 15. The Dish and Disp require their own circuits and you can use a 14/3 and a 15a two pole for those items. The lighting would be on a separate 15a cct.
This is most likely more than the original poster wanted to know but this would be the absolute minimum for all kitchens and would apply anywhere the 2005 NEC is being adhered to. The MW does noe req a cct of its own unless you use a cord connected range vent hood.
There are other things like switches to control the DISH and DISP ccts.
You could use 12/3 for one of the countertop GFI small appliance ccts and the other for the fridge w/o issue although.
Got carried away. Take what you need, ignore the rest.
RP
Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it the more people assume you have.
Well, you can not use 12/3 NM for a MWBC on the load side of a 120V GFCI. But if each receptacle is a separate GFCI receptacle, then nothing is being fed from the load side of the GFCI, and 12/3 for a MWBC will work fine. Likewise, if you use a 240/120V GFCI breaker with all regular receptacles, then 12/3 for a MWBC will also work fine.
I agree with first statement but then installing GFCI's at each position, dependent on how many you have is a more expensive proposition. Lets use $20 per and you have 6-8. If you use 2 12/2's or
1 12/2/2 NM you only then would need 2. Yes?
I will have to ponder your 2nd statement regarding the 2p 20a GFCI breaker.
I have done countless kitchen remodels and had never used that configuration. I am not saying it isn't a good idea, I just have to give it a little thought. Would you not still be sharing the Neutral? Then you leave yourself open to issues possibly down the road not to mention the fact those breakers cost almost $100 here. Shop the electrical distros and you may find a $60 one depending on the panel brand.
Regards,
Roscoe
Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it the more people assume you have.
This thread is old and most likely not perused but on the chance you'll see it,
Ping Old Redneck..........
Do they have building codes in Virginia that they/contractors follow?
Did this lady use a contractor or some friend........anyway, what it sounds like she did not "upgrade" her kitchen and bath, it's more like a downgrade and is also a contributing factor in the property not selling. That long countertop would have a proper number of small appliance receptacles spaced accordingly. Even a 12" counter between a a stove and fridge would require one, so your long one is really out of compliance.
For those that don't want to hire an electrician to do the work, at least pay one to advise you of minimum requirements. Money well spent.
I sometime install PLUGMOLD made by WIREMOLD strips if I can find an inconspicuos spot to put it if the homeowner tells me they want more than the norm. They have configurations for multiple circuits in the catalog.
Have fun building your house!
Regards.
RP
Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it the more people assume you have.
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