Cleaning Piano Keys

[Michael]

Does anyone know how to remove Crayola Invisible Marker from ivory piano keys? Warm soapy water didn't work. Thanks

[JoeSpareBedroom]

When you called Crayola, they couldn't offer a solution? That's surprising. It seems other people must've run into similar problems before.

[Jimbo]

If they're invisible, how do you know they are there?

[Ron]

I would try a pressure washer.

[Cheri]

Use a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser. They are wonderful things!

Cheri

[Jo Ann]

As I'm sure you know, ivory is pretty delicate when it comes to cleaning. Try white toothpaste on a soft, damp cloth, carefully. I've heard of people using Bon Ami, but I'd double that "carefully" if trying that. Also, they can be professionally cleaned, if it comes to that.

[RickH]

For something like this I'd start with the most gentle technique then get more agressive if the stain persists.

First try a poultice of baking soda and water for 24 hours under saran wrap.

If no success then try making a poultice out of baking soda and peroxide or diatomacious earth and peroxide (12% solution) to the consistency of peanut butter.

If no luck try mineral spirits on a WHITE paper towel under saran wrap for 24 hours.

If no luck try same with acetone.

For all of the above put a 1/4 inch thick pile of (either WHITE paper towel or baking soda medium or diatomacious earth medium) over the key then seal it with saran wrap to prevent evaporation, let it sit 24 hours, if you are lucky it will leach the stain out of the ivory. If the stain did not disappear fully, but did disappear a little, then repeat.

I'd try bleach last though.

[RickH]

The purpose of a poultice is to leach the stain out of the ivory, it cant be scrubbed off, ivory is porous.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 7/7/2010 2:07 PM Jo Ann spake thus:

Even though the O.P. said "ivory", most piano keys (white keys) aren't actually ivory any more. Endangered species and all that. They're most likely some form of "ivoroid", an ivory-looking plastic, unless it's an antique Steinway or something.

Actually, ivory is probably less "delicate" than plastic when it comes to cleaning. It's not going to melt away with solvents like acetone like most plastics will. It's also harder and will resist scratching better.

Common sense dictates avoiding any kind of abrasive cleaner, which would rule out Bon Ami. Since the markers may be solvent-based, I'd suggest the following, carefully and sparingly applied with a cotton swab:

o Paint thinner or naphtha (*not* acetone or lacquer thinner!) o A strong soap, like concentrated Simple Green, dish soap or equivalent o Denatured alcohol

Test a small patch, perhaps on an end key, to make sure it doesn't stain the keys.

[David Nebenzahl]

On 7/7/2010 3:29 PM RickH spake thus:

[...]

Except that as I pointed out elsewhere here, the keys probably are not actually ivory but some kind of plastic instead, unless it's an old or valuable instrument. Most piano makers stopped using ivory quite some time ago.

Acetone is generally not kind to plastics. (Great cleaner otherwise.)

[norminn]

Crayola has an 800 number and email addy here:

[HeyBub]

Usually to remove a discoloration or stain, you use a solvent close in chemical composition to the staining agent.

In this case, crayons are made of wax, so I'd try something in the mineral spirits, Kerosene, etc., line rather than alcohols, bleaches, turpentine, and solvents based on other chemicals.

And unless the piano is more than about fifty years old, the keys aren't ivory.

[norminn]

Read OP again...."Crayola Invisible Marker". :o)

[Tony Hwang]

Hi, Sure it is real ivory? If so must be very old piano. I'd try steaming towel(microwave wet towel) to wipe it off.

[Freckles]

----------------------------------------------------- If the keys are plastic a swab moistened with a little WD40 may do it. The janitor where I used to work removed all kind of marks, tape, and paint off of plastic counter tops with it.

Test a small out of the way area first.

Freckles

-----------------------------------------------------

[David Nebenzahl]

On 7/7/2010 5:45 PM Freckles spake thus:

That would probably work as well as anything.

[salty]

Yes, ivory is porous. That is why you don't want to use ANY liquids or solvents in amounts that might soak through and disolve glues, or warp wood beneath the ivory. The ivory, if that is what it is, is not very thick. CAUTION

[salty]

Unless of course the WD-40 cause discoloration that is worse and more permanent than the original problem. WD-40 is also not safe on all plastics regardless of what the literature says, and may soften them. The literature deliberately and carefully says harmless to MOST plastics. Some things will yellow real Ivory and some plastics badly.

I wouldn't even take advice from crayola on this problem. If it is a decent piano, the OP needs to call a piano technician with a a good resume and lots of testimonials.

[mm]

Since you say so, I'm sure you do have ivory, but just to be sure, ivory keys are in two pieces**. If there is no line between two pieces, it's plastic. If there is a line, even with the end of the black key, it's ivory.

**Three pieces if you count the front vertical part, but I only say this to satisfy the nitpickers. :)

I woudn't assume invisible markers are also made of wax. Like almost every company, Crayola has expanded its product line.

And test whatever you are about to do on the front of a key at the end of the piano next to the wall. Or call someone with great references.

This was 45 years ago but it might still work. I'm sure Crayola or someone here has a way to get it off, but if you ever lose a whole piece, as the guys in my fraternity managed to do with several before I got there, I called the place that repaired pianos, and told them my problem (Of course being a poor college student working on someone else's piano might have helped but might not have been necessary.) And they gave me the phone number for their west side of Chicago plant where they did the serious overhauls, and I called up to see where they were and if I could come over, and I said one sentence and she said What's your address. I didnt' have time to give her a sob story and there was no charge.

And she mailed me a bag of ivories and a few black keys. 3 or 4 had cigarette burns but most did not. And they were slightly different colors of white. I think this was Lyon and Healy, even though I got their name from the other piano company in town. This was when ivory keys were still legal. I'm sure they saved all the ivory keys from pianos they scrapped. Now there won't be so many getting scrapped, but there might be as many that need repair, so you might be able to get only a few.

I'm not much of a pianist, but I think ivory's better. I have a baby grand Chickering Piano that my mother bought used in 1945. It has a beautiful tone (better than my uncle's Steinway, afaic) and ivory keys. The OP's not shopping but you others, don't get a Chickering made before 1900. They weren't good yet.

Back to the fraternity piano, and this truly is home repair, I think, I dusted the dampers and the dust kept coming off and off and off. I wet a rag and kept at it. After 10 or 20 minutes, I started seeing the wood grain. Eventually I got the whole thing clean and the grain continued from one damper to another. It was beautiful. They were all cut from one piece of wood. I don't know how old this piano was but the house was a fraternity house for maybe 50 or 60 years at the time, maybe less.

What's the name of the piano company hq'd in Chicago. Not Lyon and Healy. They had a showroom on State St. in the Loop on the east side of the street, and I took the elevator to the fourth floor marked Shop (or maybe I went to every floor until I found the shop), introduced myself to the first guy I met, and told him about the most serious problem I had, which was all I hoped to get fixed from them. He took me to a guy, who showed me what to do and gave me a few spare parts to do it with. Then he took me to the next guy, who told me how to replace a broken piano string (I had one) and told me to find out what size harp I had. (It's a letter from A to G maybe that sticks out big time at the narrow end of the harp) When I came back the second time, he looked up the harp size and key number in a chart and gave me more than enough piano wire to replace the string.

On the first trip, I also had a tightening pin that was loose and kept coming loose, and the second guy took me to a third guy who gave me a couple oversized pins and taught me how to put them in. You have to jamb a 4x4 or something under the sound board and between it and the frame of the piano, near the missing removed pin, so that when you hit the new pin, you don't break the sound board, which can't be repaired, so it's all over. I didn't have to hit the pin that hard, but the sound board is fairly fragile.

Also some of the keys didn't work and the fourth guy gave me a small roll of red felt (not a full roll) and some wood pieces that were in fact missing, and eventually I took the whole keyboard out of the piano to my bedroom, where I went over every key mechanism and glued about 10 or 20 of them together with Elmer's white glue and rubber bands.

When the fourth guy was done with me, he took me back to the boss, who gave me the name and address of the wholesale piano parts store in Chicago, and gave me his name and said I coudl use his name to get 50% off on everything. I only bought a tuning wrench. I can't tune but Joe Kowlkowski had a good ear and I got him to tune the piano.

The whole process took a month or two, and the two guys who could really play the piano were very happy when it worked. You should have heard Joe play "A Whiter Shade of Pale" on the piano. It sounded as good as a whole band. He did classical too. I was happy too, and played simple stuff.

[mm]

So I dno't know how long the dampers took to get this dusty, but maybe

60 years.

I woudn't at all assume every piano has dampers like this. I've never noticed another one like it, though I don't usually lift the lid. I'm pretty sure mine are just black.

I guess I was pretty confident dirt was coming off and not just some sort of black stain. When I got down to the grain, it was still varnished or had some smooth finish on it. I used very little water and more rubbing.