Waterstone sharpening - wow!

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Personally just "discovered" them ... and even though it is a messy affair, I can't believe I've let all these years go by without paying them much attention.
It was a David J. Marks episode, that I finally got around to transferring from DVR to DVD, that was the catalyst ... that, a dearth of sheet goods, no supplier's open today, and a yen to do something, anything, in the shop, despite the heat. (Actually, I trained for the heat yesterday afternoon by digging a few 3 foot deep post holes, in the sun, in Texas, in August - part of each through a foot of compacted, buried oyster shell - the 98 degree shop was cool today by comparison)
My chisels are shaving sharp with just a few minutes spent on each, and an old, el cheapo block plane that someone thought they were favoring me with, and that's been hanging around for years, was actually doing what a plane is supposed to do in about 30 minutes ... not quite the paper thin shavings that my Veritas and old Stanley's put out, but amazing for such a cheap tool.
I still don't like to sharpen, but this was almost enjoyable, and might even get better when I actually know what I'm doing.
Thus far I've got an 800, 4000, 6000, and a naguro for the fine.
... on the way to buy SWMBO a new cookie sheet to replace the one I stole from the kitchen.
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I just have a 1200/8000 combo waterstone and I've been pretty satisfied with what I can do with it. I recently got the new veritas guide and that made it a whole lot sweeter. I *almost* don't mind sharpening now. Now if someone could come up with a fast reliable way to flatten the back of a chisel, I would be happy.
Bob
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Flatten your chisel and plane irons on FLAT water stones. Really not a problem.
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Note that I said "Fast". I know I can get there with water stones, scary sharp, etc. but none of these is very fast for flattening.
Bob
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Suface grinder. You could probably find a good used one for about $3000.00 to $5000.00. \

a
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Bob,
With a 1200 it will take you a long time. Get a 200 grit water stone...it will show you how fast is fast. If you're not paying attention you could change the angle of the bevel pretty quick! :-)
Layne
On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 02:47:12 GMT, "BillyBob"

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Yes, I knew 1200 was too fine and I've never tried it. I did flatten one chisel with 100 grit sandpaper on glass. It took forever. Would the 200 grit waterstone be significantly faster? I also saw the suggestion for an extra coarse diamond stone. Diamonds are reputed for speed, but not fine finish - for flattening that's ok. I guess I'll get out my wallet and try one of these options.
Bob
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On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 05:30:46 GMT, "BillyBob"

Flattening with sandpaper can take a long time if you don't change the sandpaper often. The sandpaper will dull and clog with slurry. When you use the higher grit SP for sharpening it kind of gives you a false sense that your edge is getting sharper because it looks shinier. But, really the edge is being polished by the slurry and not getting any sharper. An edge sharpened on a higher grit waterstone will look duller, but will actually be sharper. Like Steve Knight says, "Shiny does not mean sharp."
The 200 grit stone will cut very fast. But depending on your tools and technique the waterstone can go "unflat" quickly too. Be sure to check for flatness as you use the stone(s).
Diamond stones are great, but to me they're expensive for flattening plane irons and chisels, but are good for flattening waterstones. If you do get a diamond stone get one with monochrystaline diamonds as opposed to polychrystaline. The diamonds are uniform on mono and they wear longer.
Also, let the waterstone do the work. Don't apply too much pressure. Same applies to diamond stones.
Layne
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"Layne" wrote in message

I would assume that a lower grit diamond would be what you want for flattening waterstones? What grit would you recommend?
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Swingman wrote:

I use an XC, the coarsest DMT.
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"B a r r y" wrote in message

Thank you!
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Like what Barry said. The XX (DMT color coded black) is rated at 220 mesh.
I have a folding red/green Duosharp for knives, scissors and stuff and I really like it for a quick job on my crappy kitchen knives and it puts a very good edge on my garden bypass pruners using the green side.
Layne

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On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 04:50:56 +0000, Layne wrote:

Glad you mentioned that. I don't understand this slurry thing. I make some paste with the nagura, then the blade squeegees it away on the first pass. Ok, now what? I try chasing the slurry around the stone or painting it back with a finger, but it doesn't seem to make much difference. Simply wetting my 4k LV and 10k Ice Bear works well enough. I realize I'm missing something.
Coarse diamond stone was scratchy when I unwrapped it. Now it's smooth. Little sparklies show in the 30x pocket microscope. It cuts if I put some elbow grease into it. With slight pressure the blade only gets shiny. The 800x LV water stone cuts way faster.
The jump from 800 to 4000 is a little wider than some recommend. I picked up a 1"x3"x8" hard Arkansas at Woodcraft the other day, at 75% off. Have to use it with water instead of oil to keep from fouling up the water stones. The table in Woodcraft's catalogs lists hard Arkansas around 1200.
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On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:40:16 -0500, Australopithecus scobis

I use a drop of detergent on it after the arkansas stone is wetted with water. it seems to keep the metal waste from packing down in the pores of the stone.
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On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 15:58:41 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@all.costs wrote:

What kind of detergent, exactly? My hard Arkansas stones are getting a little clogged.
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On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 21:23:22 -0500, Prometheus wrote:

Just about detergent, really. You've got either oil+metal sludge, or just metal bits. Some suggest soaking the oilstone in kerosene to soften the gunk. When using water as a lubricant, I just use a bit of hand washing detergent in the handy pump bottle. I've had success with rubbing compound and with green 3M pads--for cleaning, not lubing :)
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Prometheus wrote:

the same stuff I use for washing dishes. I do most of my sharpening at the sink anyway, so water and detergent are my default honing fluids. sometimes if I'm in the shop sharpening, especially with a hard white arkansas stone I'll use paint thinner, but most of the time even with that stone I'll use water.
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I'm still using the stuff that came with the stone, generically labelled "honing oil". Figure 3-in-1 will work okay once that's gone (I do all my sharpening on an utility bench under the pegboard, not at the sink) I'll give the dishsoap and scotchbrite for cleaning a try, though- the course and medium stones clean up pretty well with water and a scrub brush, but the white one looks terrible and it wasn't cheap enough that I want to give up on it!
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Yeah... it is an 'oil' stone. I wouldn't use dish soap and water, just the scary sharp scrub down I think is a better idea. I just bought a big beautiful soft Arkansas, I will only use distilled water on it.
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On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 20:21:01 -0500, Prometheus wrote:

FWIW, I got a bottle of cutting oil at the hardware store. It was cheaper than 3-in-1. Stinks, though. Waterstones are much tidier, if one has a sink handy.
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