TS-Aligner Fall 2006 Promotional Offer!

[ejb]

Hi Folks,

To show my appreciation to the wreck for all your help and support I thought I would do something completely different this year.

How about a HALF PRICE sale!

Well, there are some strings attached...

First, I'm only offering one particular configuration of TS-Aligner Jr. at half price (top teir dealer pricing). It's not a stripped down model but it's also not a premium version. You get the complete TS-Aligner Jr. with the Storage Case and the DVD but only one choice of dial indicator: the standard MHC brand:

other parts or accessories or configurations are included in this offer. The units will be brand new with the standard warranty and everything.

Second, you have to buy a whole case of Jr's at once (16 units) - all shipped to a single address. So, the offer isn't such a great deal for someone who doesn't belong to a group or doesn't have any friends. But, this is rec.woodworking. If you are reading this message then you are already part of a really big group! All you guys have to do is decide which of you is trustworthy enough to organize the purchase and distribute the Aligners when they come in.

Third, the offer has a specific and limited duration. It will start on November 1, 2006 and end on December 31, 2006.

Early Bird Ebay Offer:

As an experiment I have put up one case of these TS-Aligner Jr's on Ebay. If you want, you can get a jump on the promotion by taking advantage of it. It is item #150051217493. Look here for all the details:

let me know if you have any questions or comments. If you think the group would benefit from the answer please feel free to post your question/comment here. It would also make sense to use this thread to organize your purchase(s). I will post a message to this thread on November 1 with the URL of the page where cases of Jr's can be purchased online. I will also be posting reminders to this thread throughout the promotion to make sure that everyone who visits the wreck gets a chance to see it.

Thanks, Ed Bennett [e-mail]

of the TS-Aligner

[notmenotnow]

[Lee Michaels]

Mr Bennett contributes here and provides technical expertise into the precise alignment of tools. If technical expertise and meaningful discussions offend you, please go elsewhere.

He is elsewhere in this newsgroup right now offering assistance to somebody who who damaged his tablesaw. Have you made an expert contribution to that thread?

[charlie b]

Might want to look before you leap - to a conclusion.

The gentleman in question has been an active contributor to this group for at least 7 years that I know of, has a very well thought out and useful set of set up devices product line which he often makes available to members of this group at special prices.

I have a Robland combination machine which has a dovetail shaped miter slot that's quite different from what is found no Delta and PowerMatic table saws. Mr. Bennett modified one of his TS-Aligner Junior Deluxe units to accomodate the Robland - at no additional cost. He has since added a Robland version of the TS-Aligner to his product line. I hope my recomendation of the TS-aligner to members of the yahoo Robland X31 group resulted in some sales for Mr. Bennett, and made setting up the X31 a little easier for members of the group.

Oh, BTW - when Steve Knight of Knight Toolworks posts something about a new handplane for sale - PLEASE don't go off on him as a spammer.

And if Doug Stowe posts that he has a new book out DON'T call him a spammer either.

If a Mr. Lee posts what you may think is an ad for a product let it slide - and do a google search on Groups - subject "Lee Valley" or -author "Robin Lee".

You're new here. Chill a little and get to know the group a little better before going off on someone. Lots of folks here with a lot of knowledge and experience to share - much of which you will find very useful.

Welcome to the group. Look foreward to your questions and answers.

charlie b

[charlie b]

PS - add Pat Warner to your list of people not to call spammers (how could I forget him in my previous post? dumb!)

charlie b

[ejb]

Thanks Charlie,

I'm not sure that there is anybody around to remember, but I think I posted my first message to the group in 1994 (about 12 years ago!). Perhaps some people still remember the dark days of the "Bennett Wars". I recently found some of those messages and was pretty embarrassed! What a learning experience.

It was in 1995 that I put a lot of ideas from group members together to create TS-Aligner Jr. (it's why I think that this offer is so appropriate). I cobbled together a prototype and took it with me to the American Woodworker (pre Reader's Digest) show in Philadelphia. It has evolved a lot over the years because of continued involvement from members like you. Thanks!

The page for ordering 16 unit bulk packs of Jr's is now up:

hope that this works out well for members of the group, their friends, associates, relatives, and anyone else who is interested. If people really don't think that this is a useful offer, then please let me know what would be better.

I figured that at least > notmenotnow wrote:

[Andrew Barss]

And notmenow's apology to Ed, I'm sure, will be forthcoming any time now.

-- Andy Barss

[DonkeyHody]

I am the proud owner of a TS-Aligner Jr. I don't use it every day, but when I do use it, I find it indispensable. It is a very well-thought-out precision instrument, and I'm quite happy with my purchase. My point is, I never would have known that such a tool existed if it were not for Mr. Bennett's posts to this forum. Thanks Ed, and your occassional "spams" are welcome in my book.

DonkeyHody "We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it - and stop there; lest we be like the cat that sits down on a hot stove-lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove-lid again---and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore." - Mark Twain

[todd1814]

One of the things that has completely ruined other "hobby" type newsgroups that I've spent years on has been people trying to make a profit from the group. What happens is that the number of profiteers increases over time. The group then turns into nothing but a bunch of marketers and is no longer useful to anyone in the hobby. Fights erupt when multiple people try to market the same product or when someone profits off the free advice of another. Marketers then become less "hobbiest" and more business men.

I really hope this group doesn't degrade into that because I've already left two hobbies behind that have gone that route. I mention this for everyone to consider. If there is no line drawn then ads from every marketer of woodworking products will flood this group. I've watched it happen. What's the difference between the OP and incra, delta or any other manufacturer? I also think the OP was pretty bold to suggest that we all pull together in order to make a bulk purchase. A purchase that would basically send $1K+ in his direction. This is also a practice I've seen in the two forementioned newsgroups.

I don't mind it when people who have products to sell come here to exchange ideas and talk about woodworking. I'd just rather see them limit their marketing to their own website. A hyperlink in your signature is a lot less intrusive and would be less likely to offend people than a blatant advertisement.

That's my .02 worth.

[Lee Michaels]

If you get offended by good people offering good advice, you should move elswhere.

Maybe the basketweaving and cross stitching newsgroups can meet your high standards of non involvement.

[Bruce Barnett]

Incra, Delta etc. doesn't post here. Ed does. As does Steve Knight, Robin Lee, etc.

The issues, as I see it, are 1) Is it excessive?

Well, it's been a year since the last special for TS Aligner Jr. I bought one last year. Recommended if your budget can afford it. I don't think 1 or 2 posts a year are excessive.

2) Is he responsive to consumers?

If a vendor treats this newsgroup as "write only memory" and ignores all complaints, then they deserve what happens to them.

3) Is it purposely hard to filter?

Some trolls always change their name, subject, etc. and make it hard to filter their announcements. Ed does not. If you don't want to read about the TS Aligner - don't.

So? I see more messages about people bitching than I see about the original message. If some club wants to do a bulk order - fine. It might work. It might not. You should be able to ignore one post a year, and you should know how to use kill files if you don't want to read anything by Ed, or anything about his promotions.

The other forums I visit have worse problems than vendors who participate - like politics.

I too have seen forums degrade - and agree that speaking up when you see a problem is the right thing to do.

But this is the FIRST time Ed made an offer for a bulk purchase. I don't think Ed is doing the wrong thing here.

And I'd guess that the other vendors you had a problem with were much less responsive than Ed is. I think you need to cut him some slack.

[Doug Miller]

Ed Bennett has contributed plenty to this group, and I and many others here are enthusiastic users of his alignment tools. Without Ed's posts to the group, I would never have known that they exist. Ed's marketing is never "hard-sell". His posts consist mostly of "here it is, it works, but don't just take my word for it, ask around." Very low key, very professional -- and very much appreciated, too.

You're not (quite) the only one here to feel the way you do -- but you are in a very small minority, and it seems to me that the group would suffer much more from Ed's departure than from yours.

[B A R R Y]

Many of the vendors who post here are quick to add useful woodworking information that often has little to do with the particular product they sell.

[todd1814]

Never said I personally was offended but I can tell you that I won't buy Ed's product based solely on the fact that he's taking advantage of this forum to make a buck. I achieve the same thing at a much lower cost anyway.

Whitewater Kayaking and Unicycling. Arcade Collecting is getting real close to being worthless too.

There's no purpose in being synical about someone pointing out a problem that is bound to become worse. I was trying to offer something constructive while you obviously responded for the sake of criticizing me. It would be nice to see some positive responses instead, such as starting a group for woodworking vendors. If I wanted to look for woodworking products (or spam) then I could go to that group and browse. Instead I have to keep updating kill filters.

I realize that's the nature of usenet today but that's not the original intent of it. I worked on the usenet software back in the early 80's when I was a Marine. We were trying to take what Duke and Chapel Hill had done and create an equivalent for the military. The purpose was to allow people to educate and collaborate. The usenet of today is quickly morphing from its root purpose into a system that's destined to be inundated with commercial interests. The end result is that the original purpose is not only lost but ceases to exist.

My orig> > You're not (quite) the only one here to feel the way you do -- but you are in

It's interesting that you speak for what you suggest is "the majority" and categorize me as "the minority". I didn't realize you were president of this here usenet group. You must be a real important guy

- much more important than anyone else here. After all, you get to decide who is more important than who. Perhaps you could share your "org" chart with me so I can figure out where I fit in.

I didn't see a large number of responses for or against commercial advertisements, which makes it impossible to determine what the minority or majority thinks about the issue. Your attempt to minimize my involvement and interest in woodworking has nothing to do with facts. But your response is familiar. Exactly what I've seen in other groups before they stopped being a place for hobbiests to meet.

[Lee Michaels]

Oh my god, I am being taken advantage of. I was not aware of this.

And the folks who come by and help us are entitled to make a buck. They listen to us and we listen to them. And Ed's product, in particular, came about to meet a need. And he has helped a lot of people learn about tuning their saws.

The wreck would be a droll place if only folks with home shops just came here. The professionals add a lot of expertise and knowledge to this forum. And some of them even make a dreaded buck or two.

A tradtional rule in web forums is that it is spamming if you contribute nothing. It ain't if you participate in a manner where expertise and knowledge is communicated. Perhaps you have difficulty with the concepts of communication, expertise and knowledge.

I am being "synical"??? You are offering constructive criticism?? I am OBVIOUSLY responding in this fashion "for the sake of criticizing you". It must be tough living in a world where everything happens because of YOU.

I place a high value on information, creativity solutions to problems. I don't discriminate on the basis of race, religion, politics or the fact they may be be involved in a dreaded business. If the can help, inform or entertain me, I appreciate and accept them. It is that simple.

One of the biggest impediments to using the web to its fullest is all the whining net nannies. Since it is a great burden to updating your kill filters to filter out all knowledgable people, I will try to help. I will killfile you so as to not have to deal with your constant whining. There, feel better?

Gee, the world is changeing. Does your whining help bring back the good old days?

It may come as a great shock to you. but many people find the wreck to be just fine. Even if it does not achieve some utopian ideal of yours.

You really have a thing for "money makers" don't you? Is it beyond your comprehension that people can come together for a common benefit. And even include a few of these dreaded "moneymakers".

I am here to tell you that these so called "moneymakers" have contributed much to this newsgroup. We don't need your warnings of doom and gloom.

That is all I am going to say about this.

Into the bozo bucket for you.

[Dave Bugg]

What a patronizing pant-load of crap. Ed's been around the wreck far longer than you and is quite generous with help and advice. So your "prediction" that Ed is the harbinger of the wreck's downfall is nonsense.

That is the type of response on would expect from someone who thinks the world revovles around them.

In *your* opinion you don't see the responses as positive. And you are free to start any kind of group you wish.

Yup, as I said, you think things should revolve around *your* wishes and desires. But please continue. Now, share some stories about your long-time experience with usenet that makes you special. Go on, don't be bashful.

Just a sec...... Sorry; those tales of yore sure stir up a lot of dust when dragged out of storage.

Sure, that's the explanation. Or maybe it's that Ed is seen as one of our own and you are viewed as a meddling outsider?

Now that is clever. I've never heard that line before.

Truly spoken by someone who seems to have trouble fitting in.

Doug has been around for quite awhile and knows -- from experience -- the temperament of the wreck and Ed's contributions here. That does make it possible for him to know.

I just love the tone of hyperbole in the morning. It sounds like..... like.......whining.

[Doug Miller]

My comments are based on observing the number of people who support Ed and his (actually infrequent) posts here, and those like yourself who oppose his doing so. On that basis, you *are* in a small minority.

As opposed to yourself, who thinks he should get to decide who's allowed to post, and post what, here...

I'm not trying to "decide who is more important than who". My statement is clearly labelled as my _opinion_. That's what "it seems to me" means.

Seems I was right, too.

Guess.

I made no comments at all about your "involvement and interest in woodworking". I merely offered my opinion on your value to the group, relative to Ed Bennett's.

Seems I was right, too.

Of course you're free to leave whenever you wish. Some folks may try to talk you into staying.

Some won't.

[Bruce Barnett]

Sure - a dial indicator on a stick can be used, but

1) You don't have an offset bar - letting you measure closer to the table surface (which increases accuracy) 2) There is no angle measurement 3) Can't use it as a height gauge, (i.e. a jointer) 4) You don't get a spindle rod, letting you measure drill press tables, etc.

Also - I had a problem trying to get my crosscut sled accurate, and I send Ed an e-mail. He suggested some options, and solved my problem.

Yeah - it's a deluxe system. I like it.

[Bruce Barnett]

Yeah! Well said. Ed's not a sales guy in a suit pushing crap. It's like he's a regular guy who found a need for a product, made the product, and started up a small business around this quality product.

This is exactly what we need more of.

Compare this to

Hello! I run a factory in China, and we will mass product anything you want. Just send us enough money and we can copy anything. Minimum order is $100,000.

[B A R R Y]

Not mention that Ed has a Cabal card...