TS-Aligner Fall 2006 Promotional Offer!

[Dave Bugg]

Shhh.....there is NO Cabal.

[Joe Gorman]

Does that mean I get to eat the brownies I made to bribe my way in with? Joe

[Tom Veatch]

To Todd:

You make some good, and IMHO, valid points. They may not be applicable in this particular case, but that's a judgment call. In general, they are very good points. This is an unmoderated group and, as such, there is some, not a lot, but some spam in this group.

A true spammer will just drop off the s**t and be gone. In this instance, I don't believe that to be the case. But, that's just my observation. I think most inhabitants of the Wreck just ignore the spam, as they try, all too often unsuccessfully, to ignore the trolls that crop up on occasion.

As you've undoubtedly noticed, there are some who feel awfully paternalistic, defensive and, dare I say, possessive, toward the Wreck. But, as it should be obvious to all, you are as much an "owner" of the Wreck as anyone else who's here.

Oh, BTW, Semper Fi! I was there in the 60's, and there are a several others of us around.

To Lee:

You also, make some valid points. But "whining"? I didn't see that. Neither do I see a need to block your posts simply because of the ad hominem contribution to this thread.

To All,

"But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing. It behooves you, therefore, to be watchful ...." -- Andrew Jackson, Farewell Address, March 4, 1837

And, if I may add to Jackson's words, it serves no good purpose to attack the watcher when an alarm is raised. Much better to simply, and dispassionately, educate the watcher if the alarm is false.

[Doug Miller]

OTOH, when the watcher continues to yammer after attempts have been made to educate him...

[Patriarch]

[e-mail] (Doug Miller) wrote in news:%982h.1507$ [e-mail]:

MY ignore button works well...

Patriarch

[Dave Bugg]

Which the TS-Aligner objector could choose to employ, if they were reasonable.

[ejb]

I have to admit that I've heard comments like this many times before and am always hoping to find some clever new soltions that comprehensively cover the functions of the Jr. at a "much lower cost". So far 100% of the people who have said this didn't even bother to look at the capabilities of the Jr. They just mount a cheap dial indicator on a stick (or magnetic base) and assume that it does "the same thing". Some have fashioned fancy gadgets by combinind two or more sticks but essentially they just do table saw blade and fence alignment. While there are competitive products which don't do anything more than a dial indicator on a stick and they do sell for competitive prices, the Jr. is different.

The question for you is this: Do you really have an innovative solution?. Can you really "achieve the same thing" as a TS-Aligner Jr. "at a much lower cost"? I'm naturally curious but I would think that this is information that the whole group would be very interested in. By all means, if you believe in the "original intent" of Usenet, share your knowledge!

While you are busy checking out what a Jr. does, you might also bother read my philosophy page:

's where you will learn that I don't sell things that people can make on their own at a "much lower cost".

Ed Bennett [e-mail]

[ejb]

How long ago did you bake them? I thought membership was closed many years ago.

Now, where did I put that darn card...

Ed

[Morris Dovey]

| That's where you will learn that I don't sell things that people can | make on their own at a "much lower cost".

I do - but I tell people that they can make their own cheaper than they can buy mine - *and* I give free "look and learn" hints to help 'em do it.

(Sorry, the devil made me do it.)

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Lee Michaels]

Good stuff Ed. That is a good page that stands well on its own. I really don't thaink that many businesses could come up with anything better.

I wonder if the original objector has a philosophy page?

[Tom Veatch]

Then, I suppose it becomes a case of "What do you do after you 'turn the other cheek'. Walk away, or call in an air strike?" :)

[ejb]

No problem Morris!

Actually, I tell people how to make the "dial indicator on a stick" all the time. I even have a page devoted to comparing its capabilities to my lowest cost Jr. Lite:

Lite still does a lot more. I think that there's some value to selling something that people could do on their own. Lots of stuff I buy falls into that category. I guess it's just my own personal neurosis which keeps me awake at night if I were to do it.

Ed

Morris Dovey wrote:

[Morris Dovey]

| Morris Dovey wrote: || [e-mail] (in || [e-mail]) said: || ||| That's where you will learn that I don't sell things that people ||| can make on their own at a "much lower cost". || || I do - but I tell people that they can make their own cheaper than || they can buy mine - *and* I give free "look and learn" hints to || help 'em do it. || || || || (Sorry, the devil made me do it.)

| No problem Morris! | | Actually, I tell people how to make the "dial indicator on a stick" | all the time. I even have a page devoted to comparing its | capabilities to my lowest cost Jr. Lite: | |

|| Jr. Lite still does a lot more. I think that there's some value to | selling something that people could do on their own. Lots of stuff | I buy falls into that category. I guess it's just my own personal | neurosis which keeps me awake at night if I were to do it.

I know. I've visited your site and done some important looking and learning there. If my woodworking were more dependent on the types of tools your products help to calibrate, I'd almost certainly have been a customer years ago.

I truly hope the current (and inevitable future) fooferaw over the evolution of the Internet doesn't cause you personal discomfort. It's an ever-changing world; and the one constant seems to be that we all need to keep in mind is that it's important to contribute /something/ to the general welfare. IMO, you're not only doing that; you're also making it easier for others to do the same.

I like your shop :-)

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Joe Gorman]

I stored them in my Portable Time Warp, just in case the invitation was lost in the mail. Joe checking seals on PTM

[B A R R Y]

Never speak of the brownies!

Or the Cool-Aid....

[todd1814]

I wouldn't have bothered to respond to this thread if I was worried about the reponses I got. I really did expect it and I really don't care what those who responded think. I'm more entertained by it than anything.

I never said I could achive the same thing that ed does with a stick. I would have gladly enlighted some of you before but understanding the true profiteer nature that many of you have, I don't see a purpose in giving you something else to sell. I can tell you that I get much better accuracy with a system I put together with a cheap laser, prisms that I swap in/out and an FPGA to calculate distance. Dial indicators are mechanical and have flex in them. The only shortcoming of my approach is atmospheric conditions which only come into play under extreme circumstances.

Since I've made so many friends here lately, I thought I'd pay some of them a visit. I wonder who I should visit first?

My buddy at 841 N Kentucky Ave?? Maybe the one at 3272 W 42nd St? Maybe Lee in NYC? Or maybe I should just head on over to 5220 N Sawyer Ave where Ed and I could debate the utility of our measurement tools.

[Doug Miller]

Not exactly. But you *did* say "I achieve the same thing at a much lower cost anyway."

Even accepting that claim as true -- which I don't -- it's still pointless. The accuracy and repeatability of the TS-Aligner already exceed that of any commonly available woodworking equipment. Greater accuracy is of no benefit.

I bet *that's* convenient.

Still cheaper than the TS-Aligner, huh? I doubt it, somehow.

I'm sure some of the machinists here will have a comment or two on that one.

ROTFLMAO!! You've devised a system that's (a) cheaper than the TS-Aligner, and (b) is so precise that its accuracy can be affected by atmospheric conditions.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Oooohhhhhh... you can do a whois lookup to find publicly available information. Wow. I'm so impressed.

Come on over. You're welcome any time. Bring your magical alignment system along, and we'll compare it to the TS-Aligner Junior in my shop.

[ejb]

Hmmmm.....

I do have some familiarity with laser interferometers (used them at IBM and HP) and other optical measurement instruments (I have a fully equipped autocollimator in my Metrology lab). So I hope you understand exactly why I firmly believe that your statement contains a fair amount of bovine fecal matter. Many people who don't understand what you are talking about might not be able to discern the facts but I actually can. Just saying that you do this automatically puts you in the camp of people who don't understand what you are talking about. Especially if you think that the alignment of woodworking machinery is influenced by the mechanical "flex" in dial indicators or atmospheric turbulence disrupting the stability of your interferometer.

There is nothing to "debate" here about the "utility" of your solution. This is not "the same thing" and it is definitely not "much lower cost". You are not going to use such a setup to align table saws, set jointer knives or tram drill press tables. It won't measure blade tilt or miter gauge angles. And, such a setup can never sell for less than $200 (except for those who use the five finger discount at the midnight super sale). The closest thing I've ever seen was a 20 year old HP setup on Ebay and it went for an order of magnitude more than a TS-Aligner Jr. (still kicking myself for letting that one go!).

By the way I'm not a big fan of veiled threats. So, if you do decide to visit I will be happy to arrange free accommodati> I wouldn't have bothered to respond to this thread if I was worried

[Doug Miller]

Ed -- please have a look at my post titled "Strange phone call this morning".

[Tom Veatch]

...

Ya know, Doug, I'm beginning to regret my prior voice of moderation.

A Google search finds only one occurrence of Mr/Ms "notmenotnow" anywhere, in any group. That may not be accurate since that's the first time I've used Google for that purpose. But, in light of that and the tone of some recent posts, I'm seriously thinking "sockpuppet" or, to paraphrase the elusive "notmenotnow":

"WTF is this???????? Sounds - Looks - Walks, like TROLL!"