Time to vote on the "soft wreck"

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The call for votes (CFV) has been issued for the splinter group
Read the instructions in the CFV and follow them if you want your ballot counted. Voting closes October 21 at 1 second to midnight UTC.
The CFV should appear in the following groups:
news.announce.newgroups news.groups free.uk.woodworking rec.crafts.woodturning rec.woodworking
but I don't see it here on the wreck yet.
I've submitted my ballot...
djb
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Unless the CFV also calls for eliminating rec.woodworking, I'm not too worried about it.
In my article list, the CFV for rec.woodworking.all-ages appeared just before your post, so there must be a bit of lag if you hadn't seen it before posting.
In any case, I'm very amused by the idea that the proponents hope to create a "family safe environment" in an unmoderated NG. "Unmoderated" = "anyone can say whatever they wish".
Perhaps they just need to adopt my news reading methods for the wReck: I "mark read" about 80%+ of the posts, because either they're OT by subject line, or outside my areas of interest, or there have been more than 10 replies, which means it's probably devolved into a "meaningless brown cloud of poot", to quote Frank Zappa.
Kevin
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I wonder if my host is filtering...
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wrote:

CFV's are often cross-posted to all the relevant groups. Many servers filter out all posts posted to more than one or two groups (in order to eliminate troll posts, which are usually crossposted to AUK, the nose, the flonk, etc etc).
Anyone interested who doesn't see the CFV should probably look for it on Google groups.
John
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vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
How limited of you.....

***************************************************** I know I am wrong about just about everything. So I am not going to listen when I am told I am wrong about the things I know I am right about.
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You don't have to eliminate a group to negatively change it. I'll be voting no, mainly because the people proposing it have done _zero_ to explain what they're up to, what their motivation really is, and so on.

Add "ineffective and unneeded" to my list of concerns, yes. No positive effect, real potential of confusing people trying to get wooddorking information, and an inevitable cross-posting "everything goes to both groups" situation, proponents of unknown/dubious motivation.... I'm not seeing _any_ upside to this.
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On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 23:04:09 -0600, Dave Balderstone

can you clarify the meaning of the different possible votes? it looks like the possibilities are:
[ YES ] example.yes.vote [ NO ] example.no.vote [ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention [ CANCEL ] example.cancellation
thanks....
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'YES' you are in favor of the new group being created 'NO' you are opposed to the new group being created 'CANCEL' to void a previously cast vote. (you can change your mind during the voting period, only your _last_ vote counts. 'Cancel' is      how you withdraw a vote, =without= casting a vote for the opposite      side of the proposition) 'ABSTAIN' no functional purpose. it pretty much says "I'm going on the record as 'I don't care' about this group."
The appropriate "magic word" must be inserted in the space marked off with the '[' and ']' characters, in front of the name of each newsgroup on which you are casting a vote.
If you think the proposed group may have an adverse effects on rec.woodworking a 'no' vote is in order.
If you thing the proposed group has merit, in and of itself, then a 'yes' vote is in order.
If you don't have any real feelings either way, then the recommended action is _do_not_vote_ on the matter.
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wrote:>

Ok this will sound mean but I believe the first 2 are self explanatory but the last 2 are added for the benefit of Florida voters. ;~)
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snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote in news:lmanl0dmkv8fb2o3pv7uoer5mkk1k3n7q8@ 4ax.com:

The usually accepted meanings are:
[YES] - I approve of this group and intend to read it [NO] - I have some technical objection to the existance of the group [ABSTAIN] - I have no objection to the group but also won't read it [CANCEL] - I have previously voted and now wish to remove that vote
Note that "technical objection" can include such things as "I beleive this group will adversely affect other groups" as well as "I don't beleive this group will have a viable readership".
Note also that these meanings are slightly different from those in Robert Bonomi's post. These are slightly more accurate, altho those are close enough for practical purposes.
John
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For some reason, I feel compelled to take (at least minor) issue with most of the above. <grin>
Notably that a yes vote implies that you *do* intend to read the proposed group.
Over the years I have voted _for_ a number of groups that I had no intention whatsoever of reading. Where there was a valid functional division being drawn, and the new group was going to siphon off stuff that I had no interest in. Creating that new group was going to get the 'irrelevancies' (to me) out of the group that I _was_ reading -- a 'worthy' reason for creating it. :)
Since 'abstain' votes are, for all practical purposes, totally *ignored* by the voting system, there is no functional difference between an 'abstain' vote and _not_voting_.
The 'cancel' description, above, is a bit misleading in that it would seem to imply that if you wish to change your vote from 'yes' to 'no', or vice-versa, that you need to 'cancel' the your prior vote, and then submit your new one.
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snipped-for-privacy@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) wrote in wrote:>>The usually accepted meanings are:

<...>
That misses the point of having a vote, however. The reason the vote is held is so that the newsgroup administrators can determine if there's enough potential users to justify creating a group. If the group doesn't have enough users (readers & posters) it will die, causing extra work for those maintaining newsservers (and probably also failing to draw off your "irrelevancies" :-)
Which is why one's generally expected to vote yes only if they'll at least read, if not post, the new group.
Of course, anyone's free to vote any way for any reason :-)

Yeah - getting it in one line was tricky. I was hoping that using "remove" and not "replace" would get the point across that you only need to use cancel if you don't want to have any vote entered.
John
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dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca wrote:

If you're using my TrollFilter, or Robert Bonomi's filters, you won't ever see it on the Wreck because it's been crossposted to five groups. Our filters remove such crossposts.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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I'm not using your filters.
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"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message

I don't see it either ... no filters, using Giganews.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 7/10/04
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I'm using supernews, and don't see it (even in my list of killed posts) but do see it on my cable ISP's feed.
Annoying.
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On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:26:10 -0600, Dave Balderstone wrote:

For me it showed up as a reply to the 3rd RFD post. Mebbe check there.
--
Joe Wells


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I reset the group (supernews has over 100,000 posts to the wreck still on their servers, BTW), disabled all my filters and sure enough, the CFV showed up.
So supernews is off the hook.
djb
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It's not on my newsserver, but searched groups.google.com for rec.woodworking.all-ages CFV and followed the instructions there. Worked fine, got the ack shortly after I sent in my vote.
Dave Hinz
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Explains why I didn't see it also. I killfile anything to 3 or more groups, for the same reason. Need to go find it.
Thanks, Dave Hinz
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