Sharing photos from lighting experiment

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On 8/4/2011 7:19 AM, Dave wrote:

I am only adding a little, they should trim their posts. :~)
Ill try harder.
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wrote:

Yes. Now go do it. No more analysis. <giggle>
-- In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. -- Albert Camus
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"Bill" wrote in message
I learned there are 4 kinds: flat, eggshell, satin and semigloss. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not quite accurate, with the 4 kinds.
Eggshell is a color of paint; just an off white. It can be purchased in flat semigloss and gloss.
In wall and trim types of paint, flat is usually used for walls, with semigloss often chosen for the same room to be used on the trim. Flat does not reflect a point light source in a way that the point light can still be seen as a point. (like a light bulb)
Semigloss will reflect a point light source some, but will diffuse it some.
Gloss has a shine that will allow a person to see the point light reflected, almost like a mirror or piece of glass.
Satin is a term usually used with clear finishes, and compares to flat. Semigloss is next, then gloss; all when talking about wood finishes.
I hope this is all what others remember, but I am not looking at product on the shelf as I write this, so I might be off some. Eggshell is definitely just an off shade of white, and is not a descriptor of the shine of the finish, at any rate.
-- Jim in NC
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On 8/4/2011 12:54 AM, Morgans wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
flat semigloss and gloss.

Actually you are both correct, EggShell is a sheen and it is a color.
http://paintpro.net/Articles/PP802/PP802-Eggshell_Finishes.cfm
Google egg shell paint and you will get many references backing up both descriptions
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wrote:

Not even close, and no cigar. ;) I made that same mistake once and the lady (I use that term loosely) nearly had my jewels for it. =:0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloss_%28paint%29 http://www.resene.co.nz/homeown/probsolv/glosslvl.htm http://www.managemylife.com/mmh/articles/authored/paint-sheen-guide http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/painting/paint/selection /

Maybe in NC, but the rest of the world considers it a gloss level.
-- In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. -- Albert Camus
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wrote:

I thought you had the two over the bench and the two originals on the same switch. That could work.

From medium to blinding in the flip of a switch, eh? Right now, gray sheetrock and flat mud are sucking in the light, not reflecting it.

I'd definitely use eggshell paint. Without it, you'll need those extra fixtures. Well, I don't use the perimeter of my shop much. Some is relegated to wood storage, the other to shelving, so I guess I can't complain too much about too much light in your shop unless I'm feelin' frisky.

I use comfortable overhead lighting plus high-intensity spot lighting for critical areas. The overhead lighting is always on while I'm in the shop, and the spots are on while I'm at the tools, such as the mortiser/grinder/drillpress bench or the bandsaw. But that's only when I've created a deer trail to actually get to the tool mentioned. <sigh> One Christmas present to myself is clearing out all the crap in the shop so I can get back to work. I'm _finally_ back in de-clutter mode.

MEDIUM? Hmm, what does the doctor say about your cataracts? A buddy of mine said he just got one of his done last week and is scheduled to get the other eye done this week. He's 58, like me, and said it's nice to see the world as white, instead of a milky yellow that he had been seeing.

Well, not really. Since light is additive, when you add those other fixtures, bouncing light fills in everywhere. I'm thinking that when you turn it all on, you're going to be surprised at how bright the collective light is.

We're stuck with Blowes and Homey's Despot on the Left Coast.

If you're going to have 13 fixtures in there burning at the same time, you'd best not forget extra pairs of shades and SPF-50 lotion for all the guest suntanners you're likely to attract. ;) </frisky>
-- Win first, Fight later.
--martial principle of the Samurai
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Paint newbe: Why is that? What do you think of "satin"? Supposed to be easier to keep clean?
Without it, you'll need those extra

My light on the bottom left (of my diagram) is just so it's not dark right where you walk in, because it's adjacent to the attic where there can't be a light. You are correct (below) when you point out that I'm not sure what will happen when the lights are combined and the light bounces off of the walls.

One of the most time consuming parts of my shop project is moving stuff around (too). Frustrating when there aren't alot of good spots to move the stuff around to. Presently all of our "stuff" in the garage is in the middle--which makes it easy to work on walls, but harder to work on lights... Sometime's I block off the deer trails with chairs and such (hint, hint), but my wife walks through anyway!
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wrote:

It's within 3% of the same gloss, so either works. Both are very wipable and dust-free.

Pure white walls, got it? ;)

Whoa! That's now your shop. It's time to put your foot down and get all that crap which isn't woodwork-related outta there!

Then it was a dear trail instead. <groan>
-- In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. -- Albert Camus
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Larry Jaques wrote:

LOL! :)
There are so many distractions at Menards.. By the time I get to where they keep the paint in the far corner, I hope I still remember. Maybe I should write it on my palm? I don't want people to think I'm racist though.. There, "pure white poles"--OOPS!
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*snip*

Thanks for the heads up. Time to buy my dust collection piping.
Puckdropper
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> Larry Jaques wrote: > >>> My light on the bottom left (of my diagram) is just so it's not dark >>> right where you walk in, because it's adjacent to the attic where there >>> can't be a light. You are correct (below) when you point out that I'm >>> not sure what will happen when the lights are combined and the light >>> bounces off of the walls. >> >> Pure white walls, got it? ;) > Larry, I couldn't find the exact message, but you commented a while back that I had a lot of fixtures corresponding to one of my switches. That stuck in my head and I thought I would let you know that I decided to proceed with this 3 switch model:
1 2 | 2
3 3 3
1 2 2
3 | 3
That way (1) , (1 and 2) , (3), and (1 and 2 and 3) make sense. It looks alot like Lew's model from months ago, no?
Ironicly, I actually formulated it by candlelight following a recent lightning strike while I had no electricity, cable, phone, or Internet. There was nothing to do...
I will have to go to one of those fancy electrical suppliers to find an external ("weatherproof type") 3-gang swithbox. The Borgs only have the 1 and 2 gang varieties.
I still remember what you said: "pure white". I think I'm going to go with egg shell. I prepped an old wall having a lot of old holes yesterday. Hopefully I'll be able to prime everything soon. Will cleaning the "stipple" on the ceiling with a broom be enough prep for it? I washed the other old surfaces with soap and water.
Except for some "throwaway" brushes I inherited, I don't have any painting supplies at all. Hopefully I'll be able to locate a 6 foot handle (I don't want to pay dearly for a telescoping one since I really don't need it)? I just need to reach over the deer crap in the middle of the floor to paint the ceiling...lol. Silly question: Is one coat of primer (Zinsser, "FastPrime 2, Primer and Sealer") all that is typically applied? I never primed a wall before; I need to get out more.
Things are progessing a bit slower than I would have liked, as I took a few weeks off when the heat and humidity became "oppressive". Conditions are much better now. Even the grass is growing slow. : )
Bill
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wrote:

How many of those are over the area of the garage door? Being able to turn those off if you had the door open would be an idea.
I often go out to the shop (like last week, adding shorter belt holes) and just use the bench/vise for a minute, so lighting just the row over the bench is another possibile config. I guess your 1 is kinda sorta like that, but more of a general, softer full-shop lighting. The original | lights are on 1, oui? 3's kinda weird, but I guess it fills in the holes. Why no flexible conduit for a movable light under the attic access hole, hmm? <gd&r>

So you a**led it out, eh? Good for you. <giggle>

Why not leave the original as-is?

Bueno, bwana.

If you reeeeally want to keep (a truly -bad- idea) the popcorn, you'll have to use a special paint on it. Talk to the paint store nerd.

You'll want to roll the shop, and throwaway brushes can handle cutting in. Important note: cut-in and paint 8' wide areas so the cutins don't dry or they'll show. I finally learned that trick, decades late.

Yes you do, but you just don't realize it yet. I found one on a squeegee, then got a better one at a garage sale for $3. Now that I've used them for 9 years, I'd spend $30 on a new one if I needed it. I put all sorts of things on the end: brushes, rollers, brooms, squeegees, roof rakes. My 6-footer is the most used. I can roll to 11' high with it, without a ladder.

I dare not ask.

Yes, one coat usually does it. It seals the drywall so it doesn't suck the gloss out of the paint and it takes less paint. Interior primer is $40-50 for 5gal buckets, and the cheap stuff works fine for your new (or non-stained old) drywall, if you haven't already bought the Zinsser.

Early mornings and late nights solve that problem, especially since you can now sleep in if you're up late. I'm up at 4am most mornings, and 95% awake before my little toes hit the carpet, so early mornings are when I get a lot of work done. Anything inside and quiet work outside.

Mine isn't until I water it. That's why I want to get rid of it.
-- ...in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work. -- John Ruskin
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Larry Jaques wrote:

By the way, the two existing lights (marked '|') are on a separate branch circuit from the main panel. Their switch is conveniently located next to the door in the kitchen. That those 2 lights are powered from the main panel, rather than the shop subpanel, makes for a safer operation, I think.

4, the third "column".
Being able to

Yes, that would be nice. Just another switch and some more wire I suppose. Perhaps I'll save that for a future enhancement? I'm in the small group for whom it would Not have occurred to install lights over the garage door in the first place! ; ) Last summer, I was planning for 4 new fixtures and somehow that number ballooned to 11, and the single switch box I had installed became totally inadequate!
Today I picked up a Red Dot brand 3-gang external switch box (for "wet locations") from Kirby-Risk. If you add together the prices of the 1-gang and 2-gang models at the BORGs, and multiply the result by 3, the result is just about what I paid. Of course, the price rose 40% after I told him how many I wanted. At least I finally visited a Kirby-Risk store..in fact, I visited 2 of them. Before going to Kirby-Risk, I visited an electrical supplier that went out of business and another one that didn't actually sell electrical supplies. So yes, it was a full half-day event, but if I didn't push myself a little I wouldn't have things to write about. ; )
To install the switch box, are you just supposed to drill some holes through the back? I have a more intersting question regarding it's installation which I'll put in new thread.
Why no flexible conduit for a movable light under

You're flirting with code violations there, buddy! I think the minor one is that (I think) flexible conduit needs to be secured every 4 feet! I do have a shop-light resting just inside the access hole. I could maybe hang it from the rafters? ;)

Only 1 switch? Hmmm.. you mean use 2 boxes? Saving money is the only rationale I can think of for that. Remember, I'm after (like Hemmingway), "A Clean, Well-lighted Place". Neatness counts! : )

He steered me towards the primer I mentioned (for everything). He (salesguy at Menards) was suggesting DutchBoy paint for everything. White!

I have found cutting in about 4 inches to be adequate. I already learned the lesson on not getting too far ahead of yourself on the cutting-in. I did a lot of painting for 2 summers when I was 19-20. All of my old supplies are long gone but I mostly remember how to do it though I feel like I've lost the rhythm. I had my "system" down pretty well, but I never painted new work or stipple.

Working at night suits me fine, but I don't have a good place to clean up (drywall mud, etc.) in the dark. Getting up dang-early sounds like a good way to go. It integrates better for getting other things done too.

Grass is a time burner fo' sho'. Weeds may even be worse. I picked 6 hours worth of old ones along the curb this week. Roots were up to 8+ inches. On the 2nd day I started using a pair of pliers along with the standard week tool (which I recommend).
Thanks for your help! Bill
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wrote:

Yeah, if you don't lose all power. Hang flashlights on some of the tools and over the bench. These are inexpensive (2 for $3, or often free with HF coupons from magazines. They store well/light well, and have a handy hang strap.) http://goo.gl/Dz2jJ http://goo.gl/cq5BB

Bueno.
No comment. <kaff, kaff> ;)

Oy, vay! Well, at least you have one. Why waterproof? Because you wanted surface-mount? http://goo.gl/2REjZ (rub, rub)

There ya go! <g>

2 boxes. Original switch where it is, add for the other circuits. Logic vs ARmingway. <shrug>

No, I meant for you to ask a real painter at a real store, sir. Latex primer on popcorn will accomplish the same stripping effect I suggested, but not quite what you expected. That could be fun, tho. Have the wifey take movies of your encounter. It'll be a hit on YouTube, fer sher. (I really shouldn't have said anything, and simply let you just have that fine experience, but we're buds... ;)

It comes back to you like riding a bike. Muscle memory.

Other than _having_ to prime, it's not much different. Popcorn, OTOH, is a whole 'nother bag of shit. Evil stuff just waiting to fark ya. You obviously have no idea the evil you're dealing with, but you will. Within 6" of the first roller touching it. <titter>
I'd rent an airless and spray the whole thing (-after- depopcorning.) Go primer @ 7am, paint @ noon, take the afternoon off, then put up the bats and fixtures the next morning.

-- It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment. -- Freeman Dyson
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Yes, I was going to go behind the scenes with flexible metal conduit, but Doug Miller talked me into surface-mount.

They seem to have a nice assortment of covers. Thanks. Why all the rubbing? You got dust in your eyes? ;)

"A Clean, Well-lighted Place" should not feature unnecessary distractions. It may also be good for business if I exhibit a good sense of styylle. lol.. : ) I don't think I want people to feel like they are standing in the Sanford Arms (an archaic tv reference).

Hmmm... Thank you for the heads up. It's not really "popcorn", it's flatter, but I assume your comment still applies. I clearly need to investigate this further. From your comments, it sounds like the stuff is going to roll right off the ceiling while I try to paint it. Correct?

Oh Boy....

Why *spray* the ceiling instead of rolling it? That would seem to create more work covering stuff. I think I can reach everything with the 5' handles I have (I found one handle attached to a brush I use for cleaning the deck and another one on a sidewalk sweeper).
I need to take time out to grumble some about the popcorn...
Bill
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wrote:

Your loss.

No, just rubbing in the low, low prices. Neever mind.

<arachaic TV reference entirely lost on me>

It's highly likely.

Not if you're going to paint the floor. (recommended) 2/3 of those inexpensive 10x25' rolls of plastic would do it.

Spraying is considerably quicker and a whole lot less work.

Good idea. Take a quart sprayer with water in it up to the ceiling and test an area you'll cover with a fixture. http://goo.gl/RlZfC This is the stuff, right? http://goo.gl/w9cTO Quick removal.
-- It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment. -- Freeman Dyson
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Larry, I put a fresh picture on my web site:
http://web.newsguy.com/MySite /
I apologize that it's 5 MB, but this jpg accurately reveals the hidden beauty of the stuff.
Bill
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wrote:

Beauty? Eye of the beholder, I guess.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stipple
I don't call that stipple, and have never heard that term used outside of the art world. It's a drawing and painting technique.
I'd call your ceiling textured (drywall compound put on wet and the trowel pulled straight off?) but it's unlike any I've seen before. I think you'll be safe to paint it (good primer, then regular paint), but I'd wet or paint a small section to see if it separated from the roof before doing the full paint job. Use a 3/4" or deeper nap on the roller for filling those voids. Lambswool is great for the deeper textures. You'll likely lose some of the longer stalactites, so have a brush comb ready to clean them out of the roller. I still think spraying is the way to go for that size room, old sport, especially if you value your time at all. (No cutting-in!)
Carry on! (Or carrion, if you fall off the ladder. ;)
-- It is characteristic of all deep human problems that they are not to be approached without some humor and some bewilderment. -- Freeman Dyson
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Thank you!
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Redd Foxx often referred to the "Sanford Arms" in describing his estate on his tv show.

I just happen to have most of a 8'x100' roll I used to cover my DP and BS. It's 3mil thick. I observed that it's more slippery to walk on than the really cheap painters plastic (which is more like the plastic bags used in retail).
Painting the floor sounds alot like planting grass seed.

If I had a sprayer ready to go it might be more work. We're only talking about 500 square feet. The prep. sounds much more time consuming. I will wait until you examine the picture I posted for you on my web site (see other message).

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