Re: SawStop files with GPO/CPSC for mandatory use in US

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Was I ever pissed when I found out I had to have the real thing

No kidding...

Well again Doug, I am not trying to convence you that governmant mandate is tha best way. I am only indicating that I am not going to let the fact of government intervention sway my decision as to whether I get one or not. I'm looking out for me.
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[snip]

Yet you're quite content to allow government intervention to make that decision for the rest of us.
Hypocrite.

Bullshit.
If you were truly looking out for yourself, you'd have a $aw$top tablesaw already. You just want to force your opinions on everyone else.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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Well Bob, you have a point and I respect your point. You are the first that has been able to convence me that perhaps I am looking a little too strongly in my on favor. In this case, I hope that when and if I am in the market for this product, it is available and at that point, I will hope it is around by what ever means.
I again am not trying to force my openions on any one. I am mearely stating my openion just like every one else. I have taken no steps to encourage the governmant to become involved.
As far a being a hypocrit... Perhaps if I signed a petition for the backing of the government to become involved, and then tried to buy a TS with out the feature through another country. But, untill I actually take action other than to simply voice my desires and or openion I have every right to say what I want. Right or wrong.
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;~) Well Bob.....I am being attacked from so many sides I cannot keep up...
Sorry Doug.
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Its really a catch 22 situation. Your are dammed if you let the government protect you and you are dammed if you refuse to let the government protect you. In this case, I'll go with the government.
says...

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Sorry I just can t help myself when I see everyone else having fun with him i just couldn't stop.
I would love to have something like this on my saw but I want to pick it out of a group of choices.
In my thinking if this passes their will only be one saw made by many companys or no saws made by anyone because their is not any way to change them and still be compliant ?
I have not seen one of these does it work that well? during cut after cut and reaching in does it make a diferance?
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:05:25 +0000, timonjkl wrote:

Don't really know, but I'd be much more inclined to buy the thing if one of the $aw$top weenies would demonstrate the effecctiveness with their own weenie rather than an Oscar-Mayer. I also keep wondering what's next - circular saws, bandsaws, recprocating saws, radial arm saws, CMS/SCMS? Also wonder about dado stacks, molding heads, sanding discs, etc.?
-Doug
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On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 01:46:40 GMT, "Doug Winterburn"

As I understand it different types of calibration are required for dado blades and molding heads. I haven't looked at their specs lately, so they may have gotten something figured out that doesn't require a separate cartridge for the different types of blades.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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Give up my freedom... No. That is a very broad term. I am only talking about adding 1 more to the thousands of already government mandated requirements. This certainly is not the first of or the last of these type proposals. I just happen to go along with it. You on the other hand choose not to go along with it. That is OK with me. Yes. I would voluntarily give up my freedom to choose a TS with or with out this feature. That's it in a nut shell. If I have to sacrifice having a choice for what I would consider a better out come, I have no problem with that. I guess this is the beauty of living in the US. You have the freedom to voice your preferences most of the time.
Now, changing the subject a bit and to give you an example of some thing you may or may not be aware of. My professional career was in the Automotive industry. I was in upper management and successfully retired at age 40. If you recall back in the 80's the Freon used in automotive air conditioning systems was called R-12. There was a big deal about this freon damaging the environment so a new type refrigerent was Mandated by the government so that the R-12 would be phased out. That is what the manufacturers wanted you to know. Actually the patent for R-12 ran out for the manufacturer and every one was able to make it and sell it. The manufacturer lobbied and convinced that govermant that the R-12 was damaging the environment and should be phased out and replaced with a more friendly refrigerant which they already had a new patent on. Then the new refrigerant was introduced under a new patent and that company is all warm and fuzzy again. One problem with this is that while the new refrigerant is more friendly to the environmant, it is more dangerous to be around if you are a human being. If you will notice, with the new refrigerent, mechanics are required if possible to recapture the freon gas if he has to open up the AC system. This is mostly for his long term health. If the new Freon gas is so much friendlier, why not let it excape into the atmosphere like the old freon gas was allowed to do.
Now this is a great example of a manufacturer making up a reason to require the government to become involved. No one really benefits from this mandate expept the manufacturer.
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So because the government has already overstepped its Constitutional authority a thousand times, it's OK for it to do so again? I think not.

Trouble is, you're advocating that government *remove* that freedom of choice from me.

Then go buy one. But don't demand that the rest of us give up our freedom to make the same choice.

You don't have to sacrifice having a choice. Go buy one. Now. Then shut up, and let the rest of us decide _for_ourselves_ whether we want one too.

is absolute nonsense. The initiative to ban chlorofluorocarbons started with ecologists and organic chemists, not with refrigerant manufacturers. And that's what it was at the beginnig, too -- an attempt to ban *all* CFCs, not just one or two specific refrigerants, because they *do* destroy the ozone layer. Recapture of the new refrigerants is required by law for protection of the atmosphere, not mechanics. Why not let it escape? Because it's destructive of the ozone layer *too*, just not *as* destructive as the old stuff -- and now that we know what's breaking down the ozone layer, we'd better stop pumping more of that crap into the air.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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So if I may put it in a nutshell... because everything is going smoothly for you personally, erosion of everyone's personal freedom doesn't worry you in the least.
You are contemptible.

Contradicting yourself again, I see.
This thread begain with Gary Milliorn's post describing $aw$top's action. Your first post in the thread was an immediate, one-word followup: "Cool."

You continue to argue that this device should be made mandatory, a position equivalent to demanding that others give up their freedom to choose whether to buy it or not.

logical consequences of your position, which you apparently haven't taken the time to think through very carefully.

Mid-80s is a decade late. Concerns were raised about the effects of CFCs on the ozone layer as early as 1974.

There's a reliable source of scientific information, I'm sure...

Not true at all. The ecologists and chemists knew what was going on. It took ten or fifteen years before any of the politicians would listen to them.

That's because the law didn't require recovery of *any* refrigerant at the time that R-12 was in use. AFAIK, there _never_was_ a time during which the law required recovery of the new refrigerants but allowed release of R-12. The law which requires refrigerant recovery does not distinguish between types.

So's Freon.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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wrote:

not much of a defense for them. ;~)
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Umm.. the module has already been in use for many years now... Probably not as you think of it but it is in deed in use. The perimeters are set higher than most speed limits but that could be easily changed by different programming. GM started using an ECM in the Early 80's... 1980 IIRC. ECM was short for Electronic Control Module. Among all the sensors it monitored, it monitored engine RPM and vehicle speed. There was and still is an RPM limiter to prevent owners from going past redline and the speed monitors helped to determine when the transmissions would shift depending on engine RPM.

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I haven't driven a stickshift car yet, that I couldn't push well past the redline.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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wrote:

rev limiter. it's there a bit past redline to protect the engine from floating your valves, or blowing up the engine. you can program the ecm to move the cutout point around some, but it's not recommended for obvious reasons. it doesn't really work on ground speed.
the OP is talking about speed governors. they also exist, large fleets and people with teenagers tend to use them more often than the general public.
regards, charlie cave creek, az
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Must be more than "a bit past redline" based on my experience. :-) But Leon contended that cars have limiters which prevent "going past the redline" and that _just_ain't_so_. Not in any car I've ever driven.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Save the baby humans - stop partial-birth abortion NOW
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Doug,
Actually most diesels that I am familiar with are equipped with such devices and have been for decades. Mercedes diesels have had this since before the invention of the transistor. The rev limiter is meant to protect the engine rather than to prevent you from going too fast. It is a reliability mechanism, not a safety device.
-Jack
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wrote:

With all respect Doug, You don't know WTF you're talking about. If you reread what I wrote. I did not say all cars. I invite you to go to a GM dealership or the store and pick up any automotive magazine that tests the performance cars, I was addressing the fact that the module does and has existed for many years already. In particular look for the magazine that shows top speed. In almost every case some of the cars top speed is governed and limited. This is done by limiting engine RPMS dependant on what gear the car or truck is in.
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wrote:

that top speed is limited to: what the driver can do with installed tires on some specific track, aerodynamic forces relating to the frontal area and drag of the body, size of the engine installed, size of cojones of the driver, or other factors. it almost isn't ever a speed limiter on the engine.
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