Re: A Handy Tip For Gorrilla Glue Users

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wrote:

If even then. The MSDS for acetone (google string "acetone MSDS") says, among other things:
(specific URL: http://www.bu.edu/es/labsafety/ESMSDSs/MSAcetone.html )
Contact Rating: 1 - Slight
Skin Contact: Irritating due to defatting action on skin. Causes redness, pain, drying and cracking of the skin.
Chronic Exposure: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may produce severe irritation or dermatitis. Toxicological information is unremarkable.
So, while I wouldn't bathe in the stuff, telling someone it's gonna eat their liver is, well, unsupportable.
Dave Hinz
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Australopithecus scobis wrote:
<snip>

<snip>
Not any more.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Check again Lew. The pharmacy I go to has it with and without acetone.
The kind without acetone is mostly ethyl acetate. The MSDS for Ethyl Acetate lists liver damage as an inhalation side effect, the one from the same vendor for acetone does not. Further, the allowable exposure for Ethyl Acetate is _half_ that of Acetone.

--
--John
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I've used acetone to strip poly glue spots from my hands, too. Works great.
The mild health risk associated with acetone doesn't bother me too much. Most of the chemicals in my shop have a similar or worse rating.
The one aspect in which acetone is considerably more dangerous than anything else I use is as a fire hazard. It's flammable as hell, it evaporates pretty fast, it's heavier than air, and explosive at only about 2-3% in air. I always use it with lots of ventilation and well away from anything that would make a spark.
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It was somewhere outside Barstow when Nate Perkins

Acetone is only flammable as heck.
Cyclohexane is flammable as hell.
I like acetone as a workshop solvent. Cheap, easily available, pokey enough to work, nothing like so hazardous as most of the alternatives.
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Do you have a calibration scale for this?
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Specifically, where does "flammable as all get-out" fit in the scale? I googled, but didn't find anything specifically about this.
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Dave Hinz wrote:

I think the relevant scale is 'flashpoint'.
Like golf, a smaller number is 'flashier'.
--

FF


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It was somewhere outside Barstow when snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

Depends on how you're trying to set fire to it. Flashpoint is widely misunderstood (actually it's very rarely understood at all). Think of it not as "the temperature at which it _will_ ignite" but rather as "the temperature at which it _can_ ignite". Formally it's the temperature above which a flammable liquid gives off enough vapour to form a flammable atmosphere. You still need to supply an ignition source.
Most materials have flashpoints well above room temperature. The ones we think of as flammable are those where the flashpoint is at some temperature that's easily achieved - room temperature or thereabouts. In practice this means that a spill of it forms a flammable atmosphere and just needs a spark to light it. A liquid with low flammability would have to be heated before you could even begin to try igniting it (of course a flame or heat source might achieve both simultaneously).
Strictly speaking, "flammable" (in some countries) is for a flashpoint of between 23-61C ("room temperature" is about 23C) and "highly flammable" is a flashpoint below this. AFAIR, in the USA these definitions are different and it's 100F that's the break for "flammable"
Some other aspects of "risk of fire" are the minimum energy needed to cause ignition (this is why we can easily demonstrate that static discharges won't cause dust collector fires) and also the range of mixtures (fuel/oxygen ratio) which form a flammable mixture. This is the reason why gasoline is so hazardous - almost any proportion is an explosive mixture.
In the case of cyclohexane vs. acetone, they both have similarly low flashpoints (-20C and -18C) but the autoignition temperature of cyclohexane is only 2/3rd that of acetone (260C vs. 538C). With the vapour around (and this is almost inevitable) then a much lower energy of spark is needed to ignite cyclohexane than acetone.
A useful handy resource with the numbers: http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/lowflashpoint.html
--
Smert' spamionam

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wrote:

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/A0446.htm http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/c6886.htm
Look at the entries for flash point, flammability limit (lel), vapor pressure, evaporation rate, and vapor density.
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wrote:

I've never used cyclohexane (although I was a chemical engineer as one of my past jobs).
They are both "darned flammable." Both have flashpoints around -20C, and lower explosive limits of only a couple percent in air (e.g., about like hydrogen). Cyclohexane's got about half the lower explosive limit of acetone, but acetone's got a higher vapor pressure and evaporates faster. Both are denser than air, so the vapor will concentrate along the floor.
I'm not at all saying that acetone can't be used reasonably in the home shop; I use it, too. But people ought to watch out for ignition sources and ventilation. It is a worse flammability hazard than more usual solvents like mineral spirits and ethanol.
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stoutman wrote:

You just might be getting in deeper than you think.
Might very well be worth a physical.
Lew
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Don't you worry. Im healthy.
Im a chemist so im around solvents all day long. Most that I deal with are 1000000X worse than acetone. Acetone is the LEAST of my concerns.

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my father is also a chemist, and was just diagnosed with bladder cancer almost certainly from exposure to chemicals like acetone. i say protect yourself.
stoutman wrote:

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stoutman writes:

Ah yes, the voice of the seemingly indestructable macho male.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

No, the voice of someone who can actually tell the difference between his ass and a hole in the ground.
Now let's see, his expertise comes from training as a chemist and long experience. Your expertise comes from?
You seem determined to scare yourself to death. I'm surprised that you are willing to use power tools. After all, that ozone that they produce will kill you.

--
--John
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My expertise comes from several years of intustrial experience as a Ph.D. medicinal chemist.
I'm not the one thats scared of acetone. I'm trying to explain to these guys that acetone is not that toxic. Certaintly safe to use to get glue off your hands.
I work with methylene chloride, chloroform, hexanes, methanol etc. all Day Long.
Beleive me i'm healthy, I take precautions, and Im not scared. Especially not afraid to use acetone to get glue from my hands.
Take care.

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disregard my previous message. I thought you were addressing me.
Sorry

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stoutman wrote:

No problem.

--
--John
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I sent out a response to this message thinking you were addressing me. But now I see you were not. The message still hasn't appeared in my server, but ...

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