Powermatic PM2000 or Grizzly 1023SL

Hello All,
I am trying to decide between the Powermatic 2000 and the Grizzly 1023SL. I really would like a response on which you would choose if somebody was offering to give you one or the other. If you wish to include your reasoning, that is great otherwise a simple vote is certainly appreciated.
Regards,
Trent
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Both freebies? Then I have to vote PM2000 if for no other reason than it sells for at least twice as much. The polished tops on PMs are nice and I am sure that there is some minor fit and finish items that are better. Heck, I even like the look better. Now if you said I could have a free PM2000 or a Griz plus $1,000 we're talking a whole different story. I would take the griz plus $1K since all those differences noted are mostly cosmetic and won't change the ability to rip a 3" thick piece of oak or any other proper function of a cabinet saw.
Dave Hall (who probably won't ever have either and will continue to work with his used Shopsmith)

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If price is not the consideration, then Powermatic hands down. There is a reason the Powermatic costs twice as much.
Specifics. - Comparing these specifc models the PM has a 50" fence and table, the Griz is only 26 - For power comparison I'd need to see the motor amps. I will assume the PM has more, not sure. - Griz has shopfox fence. It's OK but PM's fence is better - PM has integrated casters - PM has shrouded blade so dust collection is 4x better - Griz makes good stuff, I own some but PM is a higher quality producer. There is less difference today than in the past as griz gets better and PM goes down but for precision tools I like to go with a manufacture that is not striving to be the low cost leader. Now for a sander, no prob and for any tool when price plays in I might buy a Griz saw if I had budget issues but would rather a PM or Delta Uni.
The likelyhood that a PM TS top would be warped out of spec is something less than the likeley hood for Griz. That being said if you prove to Griz there is a problem they will replace whatever necessary, the PM it will depend how\where you buy it.

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And customer support is a real issue these days, isn't it? With almost every single piece of heavy iron tooling being made in China or Taiwan, your purchase is only as good as the support. The stories I have heard about Powermatic support from my buddies at Woodcraft are not all good. Nor is their impression of the PM quality these days. At one time, they certainly seemed to be the king of the table saws, but I think now they are just a gold colored Jet. Some good, some not so good.
But it wasn't that long ago (at least to me) that Grizz had all manner of problems with their castings. They would break, crack, warp, and just generally be a PITA. But their customer support picked up the slack, and apparently has made the majority of their users happy. I think too, what you said is true. The quality keeps going up on their products.
Even to the point that at one time they had a giant lapping machine installed at one of their locations. Recognizing that the iron tops were milled/lapped/shipped green and likely to warp, they used to (and they may still) pull the tops out of the packaging, lap and polish them, then repack before shipping. It must be working as they sure sell a lot of tablesaws.
And their new 12" monster just won some awards for its quality and value. I think it is something like $2000 or so. If it is a good saw, that would sure be tough to beat, especially when you read the specs.
Robert
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Lexus or Subaru
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Exactly which of the two saws mentioned is the Lexus and which is the Subaru? The traits, category I put the Lexus and Subaru lines into don't match up very well with either of these saws for me.
Maybe a better car analogy would be Cadillac Cimarron for the PM2000. GM tried to make the Cavalier into a more affordable Cadillac like WMH is trying to make the PM2000 into a more affordable PM66. Both tried or are trying to capitalize on built up reputation. Grizzly saw may be the more recent Ford Escort. I drove an escort rental a few years ago and it was OK. I know someone who has an Escort and its OK. Nothing great, but OK. I think prior Escorts were cheap and not OK. So quality improved some over time. Might be better car examples for the Grizzly saw.
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Lexus, prettier, Subaru, not so pretty.
Lexus, more features, Subaru not as many.
Lexus, more expensive, Subaru, not as expensive.
Lexus and Subaru dependability, probably not much real difference.
Lexus, PM, and Subaru, Grizzly.
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I think you picked too high of quality vehicles for the analogy. If the PM2000 is a Lexus, does that mean the PM66 is a Rolls-Royce?
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On 16 Feb 2007 16:34:34 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

An old Lexus.
Here's the Rolls-Royce machines:
<http://www.scmgroup-usa.com/machines/standard_line/si400vanguard.html <http://usa.felder-gruppe.at/?page=maschinen_details&xat_code 042d772562d0288281&parentca6caa3236803d8882#tblHead>
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Both on each compairison are probably of an equal ratio.
If

No, an older upper end Lexus.
Rolls-Royce would be something upper European, Knapp, Felder, Laguna.
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I have the 1023SL and if someone were offering me a free trade, there's no question, I'd go for it. If I had to pay the difference, I wouldn't but then I am mostly a weekender and the Grizz does the job nicely for me. I think I'd mostly notice the difference in the fence and dust collection.
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I know I am in this string late, but here is my two cents worth. Many will tell you that the Griz is not in the PM2000 class. That might be true to a point.
About five years ago I started the cabinet saw search; and was pretty much predisposed to buying a Unisaw. This was based on Unisaws I had used many years ago. Upon looking it became evident that the quality of that old faithful machine had suffered in recent years.
So I started comparing Unisaw, Jet Cabinet Saws and the 1023S with an envious eye toward the PM2000. No way could I justify the 2000 for my home shop. Especially when the finish, handwheels, power and other features equalled or surpassed the Unisaw and in some cases compared with the 2000. The Jet is a good machine but for my money the 1023S has been a great machine for about five years now (BTW - I paid $825 + about $75 shipping at the time). Some will po-po Grizzly service but I have found them to be VERY responsive. They put the 1023S on the local shipping dock within 36 hours of my internet order. I ordered other items with similar service. When a hand-held spindle sander failed a year ago they had the replacement in my hands within days.
No, I am not a Griz fanatic. My shop is fully integrated and I have a PM 6" Jointer sitting right next to the 1023S. I consider the quality to be comparable.
RonB

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