OT - You guys need some culture

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It always amazes me that we dislike so intently, the country that fought and won our American Revolution for us. Saved our ass they did by winning the battle of Yorktown. Who knows what life might be like today without them. God Bless them Everyone. Mike in Arkansas
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On 10 Dec 2004 00:57:02 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (JMWEBER987) wrote:

They've been more than paid back. They owe us now.
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(JMWEBER987) wrote:

Naahh. No one "owes" anything. France supported us in the Revolution for its own reasons that had nothing to do with altruism. The assumption that there is some kind of international scoreboard would lead to an impossible tangle of obligations if it were true. The past is done, and whether a nation supports another is rooted in an assessment of the present situation. France and many other nations regard our war in Iraq as misguided, at best. Without commenting on whether they are correct, I certainly think they have the right to make their own call on it.
The United States has refused to endorse the Kyoto agreement. Do we owe it to anyone to do so, especially since the present management vigorously disagrees with it?
Another example, the majority of historians credit the Russians' effort in World War II as the PRIMARY, but not only, reason the Allies pulled out the victory. Do we "owe" Russia anything for it? Or do they "owe" us anything for providing expertise in guiding them toward democracy after the collapse of communism? (FYI, a group of economists gave them requested advice in the early 90s)
Bob
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Bob Schmall wrote:

Yup. France & England were in fights all over the globe. France gave just enough help to keep a sizeable British force tied up for a number of years in the American colonies. ;-) My Navy ROTC professor thought the French probably didn't want to win the naval battle of Yorktown but the tactics were just too good to pass up. (English ship had to sail out of the harbor one at a time, only a few guns pointing forward, into a semi-circle of French ships with all broadside guns ready & waiting. <g>)
-- Mark
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On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:03:49 GMT, "Mark Jerde"

"Crossing the T"
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GregP wrote:

Yup, like the Battle of Jutland. (IIRC)
-- Mark
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wrote:

I know that this is off topic in an already off topic thread but I used to love that game that involved crossing the T - which might have been called something as simple as "Battleship".
You know, the one where you lost masts and sails by engaging in an unfortunate encounter.
We played that and then we played "Waterloo" and then we played "Battle of Jutland - and then we went to Vietnam.
'Course, I don't really think that Milton Bradley killed people - I thought that John Wayne killed people.
The Arts are a wonderful thing.
Regards, Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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wrote:

OT post of the month.
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wrote:

exactly what the thread deserved
Regards, Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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The Kyoto agreement is nothing but an international welfare scheme. Unless you think that it will _actually_ cause industrialized nations to substantially, immediately decrease emissions, that is. It'll just result in industrialized countries "buying pollution credits from" undeveloped countries. Translation: does squat for pollution and would force us to give yet more money to countries who hate us.
Sorry, but Kyoto doesn't do what the treehuggers pretend it would. ...and I've planted close to 10,000 trees in my lifetime...
Dave Hinz
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Dave Hinz wrote:

THANK YOU!!!! Keep up the good work!!
-- Mark
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Well, you know, everyone likes a nice piece of Ash sometimes. And walnut, maple, oak, spruce, pine, fir, and cherry but they didn't take. Problem with cherry is that you only get one shot at it.
Dave "20 acres of treefarm takes a while to prune every year, though..." Hinz
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Dave Hinz wrote:

ROTFL!
-- Mark
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So, to restate Bob's point, nations should do what is in their perceived best interest, led by 'their current management'.
The details of Kyoto, whatever they are, aside.
May the management be wise.
Patriarch
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On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:10:46 GMT, patriarch <> wrote:

Right. Giving money to people who hate us is never in our best interest. So, I agree with management.

If the criticism is about his handling of Kyoto, then it's central to the point rather than aside.

Indeed. Or at least more wise than the other option was.
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patriarch wrote:

This is the old "enlightened self interest" model in a new guise. It assumes an unreasonable degree of enlightenment IMO.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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<snip>

(Treading in deeper, when I should probably know better...)
What model would you suggest?
Surely _not_ that we select _even_less_intelligent leadership?
Patriarch
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patriarch wrote:

One which does not depend on every player believing that his "best interest" is coincident with the "best interest" of the society as a whole.

No, that we adopt a different model that is less dependent on good will.

--
--John
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Yeah, we were even when we helped _them_ with their revolution. Everything since then has been all us mopping up their mess.
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On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 02:53:20 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

Very funny. Thanks.
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