OT:...sort of. Productivity in retirement.

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Swingman wrote:

Agreed. I graduated in 1970 near the bottom of my class. About 3 years back I took a smattering of courses and, with rare exception, simply blew away the fresh HS graduates.
English. Math. Computer programming. Machine trades. CISCO networking.
ALL of what I knew had either been retained from HS or developed 'in the wild' since. Where else could it have come from?
I averaged 3.5 or so while working full time in a factory, attending school full time and being both a minister and a husband.
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"Bill in Detroit" wrote in message

Youngest daughter is currently in college so, along with having to foot the bill, I get a first hand look at the illiteracy exhibited by many of her "professors". (She has one recorded on tape apologizing to the class for being late with the remark: "I had done left my keys at home...") ... thankfully not an English professor, but the sad thing is I wouldn't have been surprised.
From an age based perspective the slide in the past 30 years is astounding. The US education system is rotting from the greed and arrogance of the educrats, a teaching staff poorly educated themselves, and the mirror image spawn of irresponsible parents they practice on.
... and further illustrated by the frequent asininities of one or two of the supposed college level "educators" who post here.
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Here where I stand by this elephant my take is that the schools (Charlotte/Mecklenburg County NC) have severe discipline problems resulting in distractions to the students, teachers, and efficient use of all resources. You can apply your perspective of 30+ years ago versus presently as to better or worse. IMHO it's worse from a legal constraining point and a family supportive point. Used to get your butt busted at school and again when you got home. Never dreamed of getting a lawyer.
Then the school board is dysfunctional as well - maybe worse, in fact.. Central to the emotional disagreements are racial divisions. If you apply logic and it doesn't support the center city viewpoint then you're a racist. Gets old listening to this broken record. There's always going to be the poor, the privileged, and the middle class in between. The environments of each strata come with the turf. Objective leadership with diverse inputs is far more constuctive than this subjective partisanship - regardless of which race or strata. There's Affluence and Influence. By a higher standard those with Influence should be effectively using it to help those without influence.
And that situation is not unique to the "South". Raised as a poor kid in Kentucky I understood that if my lot in life was to improve it would have to be because of my efforts. I never dreamed that anybody owed me anything just because of where or how I was born. Whether abandoned as a baby or shot and crippled as a young adult or broken in half as an older adult I never expected anyone to improve my situation for me.
As I've aged I've found that charity for others is part of the journey as well. Each year I choose organizations that apply their resources to educating, enabling, and lifting the standards of those less fortunate. For example, Habitat for Humanity is a program aimed at enablement - not entitlement. The old give a job instead of a meal thing.
Accountability, acceptance of responsibility and consequences, for our actions or present condition determines the mindset that wants to "make it happen" or the one who explains all the things or people (including teachers) who kept it from happening. He "gave" me an F, as opposed to "I got an F." Some might call this maturing.
This applies not just to education. The internalized values and attitudes are the core disease and things like education, out of control materialism, excessive debt, selfcenteredness, and such are the outward symptoms. The answer, in part, is to have more role models and mentors in each race and strata that have strong, constructive character traits and are willing to publicly exhibit them. As opposed to positions that are fashionable at the time.
And, this is not a disguise for right-wing fanaticism :) It's a simple, middle-of-the-road observation. The problem with that is then each extreme views you as part of its opposition since you're left or right of them :-)
Whew!! Sorry for the length, folks. Have some warm and loving holidays! And give of yourself as well as your affluence. TomNie

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Swingman wrote:
> The US education system is rotting from the greed and arrogance of the > educrats, a teaching staff poorly educated themselves, and the mirror image > spawn of irresponsible parents they practice on.
Without a doubt, the US educational system is broken.
There is plenty of blame to go around.
A lack of competition has had a devastating effect not only on school administrations, but also on teacher's unions.
There is little or no incentive to deliver a better product, namely an educated human being.
CYA runs rampant, the mark of bloated operations.
However, the ultimate failure lies squarely at the feet of the community who pays the bills.
Our society has been willing to accept sub standard product.
Until parents accept their responsibility to be parents, we as a society, have a problem.
As Walt Kelley once said using his POGO comic strip, "... we have met the enemy and it is us."
Lew
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wrote:

I did most of my undergraduate and graduate school a few years after graduating from high school and after being married and having two children. I think that the biggest difference between people doing that and those going directly to college from HS is that I was going to school for a purpose while most kids were going to school because mom & dad were paying for a "vacation". Intelligence didn't have nearly as much to do with it as a purpose (not to mention that I wasn't spending all my time going to football games and keggers).
Dave Hall
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Dave Hall wrote:
> I did most of my undergraduate and graduate school a few years after > graduating from high school and after being married and having two > children. I think that the biggest difference between people doing > that and those going directly to college from HS is that I was going > to school for a purpose while most kids were going to school because > mom & dad were paying for a "vacation". Intelligence didn't have > nearly as much to do with it as a purpose (not to mention that I > wasn't spending all my time going to football games and keggers).
An active social life is just as much a part of the collegiate experience as the classroom, IMHO.
Did my undergraduate work at a downtown, "street car" school which means the bulk of the student body lived at home and commuted to class every day.
The typical collegiate life did not exist.
While I went directly from HS to college, at least half my classmates had spent a couple of years in Korea.
Most, including myself, held down part time jobs, while carrying a full course load.
One guy worked a full 40 hour week, carried a full course load, and managed to graduate summa cum laude with an electrical engineering degree.(BTW, he went on to be president of the gas company).
These guys were on a mission. They had lost a few years, and didn't have time to waste.
Needless to say, it had an impact on my life.
Today's youth face a totally different world.
Some how the will muddle thru, but we are sure as hell making it difficult for them by not demanding they receive an opportunity to earn a better education.
Lew
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