OT: How to Save Social Security

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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:00:49 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

It most certainly is a mythology, even tho it is not like the Soviet Union's.

Nope, I didn't say "Nazi" or "Nazi-like." I said "fascist."
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I guess that might be a subject for debate... I notice you completely ignored my correction of yet another of your errors, i.e. I was not the one who introduced that term here.

Caught in another falsehood. These are your exact words:
"Oh my Rush, you are so right ! Let's put a nice, clean, motherland program in its place: we'll round up all of those poor, lazy, good- for-nothing untemensche and stick `em in camps somewhere, out of sight, out of mind (and hey, if their keepers come up with some sort of clever fake shower gimmick, why, that would make it nice & cheap for the Rest of Us, wouldn 't it ? Just make sure to destroy the pictures...) " http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/msg/3070687d10959878
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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tomeshew Wrote:

market America these days. Nor on any day in capitalist America. Jeez! HTH! To
-- tomeshew
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On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:43:46 -0700, the inscrutable "xrongor"

'Cept for Alaska, AMEN, dude. And put CONgress on the same SS benefit package as the rest of us. That'll save billions per year right there.
--
"Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free
than Christianity has made them good." --H. L. Mencken
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| 1) increase taxes and pay off the debt. dont want to increase taxes? sell | alaska and pay off the debt. have a bake sale and pay off the debt. pay | off the god damned debt. | | 2) stop deficit spending. period. do whatever it takes. dont run the | government on the credit card method. | | 3) lower taxes by 15% and STILL have more money to spend than we do now to | fund social security, schools, health care, and the other programs the 'evil | liberals' want, save a little for a rainy day, and STILL have your stupid | war. | | 4) if you dont NEED social security, you dont GET it. dont like it? | tough. |
5) Don't start wars on false pretenses. 6) Don't hire private contract firms (especially ones that have the appearance of conflict-of-interest) to perform former military work. 7. Don't run a war and occupation on the credit card method (see #2 above). 7. Don't spend millions of taxpayer money on public relations firms to hoodwink the American people under the pretense that the material came from independent news reporters and columnists -- this is called "propaganda." It's most distasteful to use it against your own people; the practice betrays democracy.
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Who gets to decide who 'needs' Social Security?
Jack

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i do.
if thats your only objection, im sure we can come to some agreement...
randy

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I'm gonna take the chassis out shortly. Pix on ABPR as soon as I can get them okay.
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Probably tomorrow I'm running a little behind.

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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 00:09:28 -0500, cowboy wrote:

Just how much did the 2000 "surplus" reduce the national debt?

So, the solution is to do nothing or increase the SS taxes and keep increasing the national debt so that our heirs can repay it with increased income taxes?

So you are all for increasing the national debt by 5 to 9 trillion more than the 1.5 trillion accrued by the SS trust fund to this point by spending the SS trust fund on us and passing on the debt to our heirs?
BTW, turn of your html
-Doug
--

To escape criticism--do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." (Elbert Hubbard)


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ok I'll chip in here, mostly because this is probably more relevant to me then most of the rest of the posters here, mostly because I'll be 65 years old in 2043, and the idea of paying more and more for benefits that I'm not going to get upsets me a little, I like the Idea of having the option of setting up a private account something akin to a 401k or IRA if you think back how nice it would have been to set up a 401k with .48%(this isn't all of SS just the proposed amount you can contribute 3% of 16% (8% you put in and 8% your employer dose) )of your earnings from the time to turned 16 or when ever you started working to the time your 65 ok now lets put it in an account earning say 9% like Prudential Financial's Lifetime40 Fund (last 10 years has preformed at 9.09%) lest say you earn an average of 40,000 for 44 years (last I heard that was the average yearly income) .048 * 40,000 = 192 increasing annuity n r -1 a(-----) = Amount r - 1 44 1.09 - 1 192(--------) 1.09 - 1
44 1.09 -1 192(-------) .09
61.85 -1 192(--------) .09
60.85 192(-----) .09
192(687.25) = 131,953.87
add this to your other retirement investments and that's not to shabby (it's more than my house cost) I wish they would let us invest more, like say 1/2
Stewart Schooley wrote:

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Require members of Congress and the Senate and other Government officials to abandon their current "salary for life" plan, and make them participate in SS benefits alone! Tom
I'm starting an OT discussion because I want to follow up on some things that were mentioned here.
To understand SS problems you have to understand the national debt. It is listed as 7 trillion dollars, but that is not the whole truth. Only 60% of it is "debt owed <snip>
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<snip a bunch of irrelevant dribble...>
So - you start an OT thread because you want to follow up on some things that were mentioned here... and you throw in some cross-posting to unrelated newsgroups for good measure? Why not just go to alt.politics where this sort of thing belongs?
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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Absolutely it should be.
The wealth of the rich is obtained from the labor of others. Government has a moral obligation to rip it out of their filthy hands and spend it on something constructive.
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well, at least william is honest. it never ceases to amaze me how people think you can "make" money on an investment. where does this money come from??? pete...stewart? a good answer please. not...we should "take care of each other".... taking care of each other costs money. are you willing to double your contributions so everyone can be "took care of." are you willing to accept the inflation that the "everybody wins" scenario brings. you people aren't thinking this through at all. we must cut payouts or increase taxes to fund SS. it is the big elephant in the room nobody will talk about because they don't want to be deemed as uncaring....or be the bad guy who promotes the biggest tax increase in the history of the world. time to get real people. it is a system that will fail eventually. the question is when and at what cost. do we suffer the costs, or do we pawn it off on our kids and grandkids as past generations have done?
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Basically, wealth is produced by human labor. The money you make on an investment came indirectly from people growing crops, or working in a factory, or whatever.
There is a clear distinction by creating wealth by working to produce something of value, and receiving money via a paycheck.
For example, a gunsmith who makes and sells rifles can easily quantify the added value that represents the wealth he has created for himself. It's his wealth, and no one (including the government) has any real right to take it from him. In fact, I'm in favor of abolishing Federal taxes for unincoporated individuals who own their own manufacturing or service businesses and do all the work themselves.
On the other hand, managers and directors don't actually do anything to create wealth, other than seeing to it that their companies are run efficiently. That certainly deserves a reward, but millions of dollars every year, year after year?
Tell me... What did Carly do to justify a $20M golden parachute? She left HP in worse condition than she found it. She ought to give her salary back.
As to "helping each other..." Here's a question I don't have an answer to. Suppose our gunsmith hires an assistant. Shouldn't the assistant receive a wage that allows him to live in reasonable comfort, without living in a rat-infested tenement or having to worry where the next meal is coming from? This means the assistant would have to produce sufficient goods and services such that their profit covered at least that "living wage."
But employers tend to try to pay as little as possible, so they can profit from the employees' labor. Should the employer look after only his own interests? If the assistant is unusually productive, should he share the extra profits?
You see, the problem with both Capitalism and Communism is that there is no real incentive to work hard to create wealth.
As long as the wealthy have the right to take wealth they didn't create, I see no reason why working people shouldn't try to take it back.
PS: Montaigne wrote that, in his opinion, wealthy people were wealthy due to avarice.
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Karl Marx must be your hero.
Whew! What a relief to know that we can stop paying actors and singers and athletes since they don't produce something. And we can get rid of all managers since they don't add anything and just trust everyone to do their jobs with no supervision. Sounds like we should just either disband all companies or just turn them all into cooperatives so that everyone gets paid the same amount. Then we can all hold hands in a big circle and sing "Kum Ba Yah". Yep...the dream of the socialist: misery spread around evenly. In a capitalist society, people get paid in part by taking risks. When someone invests his life savings into starting a company, he should expect that that risk will be rewarded in the future. If you choose to be a worker bee, you will be paid what someone else thinks you are worth. The great thing about capitalism is that if you think there's a big disconnect between the value of your labor and your wage, you can start your own company. And if you work enough 80 hour weeks and turn your company into something, you can eventually look forward to some liberal coming along and deciding how much of your investment you should give to them.

Since he himself was rich, I guess he was speaking from personal experience.
todd
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There is no way to create wealth without labor. Gold has value only because human labor is required to dig it up.
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RE: SUBJECT
You take it off this list.
Lew
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No can do. It's an un-moderated usenet news group. And it's cross posted. Use your news reader software to marks the thread as "Ignore" or "read" and it won't bother you anymore. If it's that big of an issue, hit "un-subscribe."
Jeff
Lew Hodgett wrote:

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
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