OT: Health Care Debate Framed by Lobbyists

From the "evil left wing" New York Times:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In House, Many Spoke With One Voice: Lobbyists?

In the official record of the historic House debate on overhauling health care, the speeches of many lawmakers echo with similarities. Often, that was no accident.

Statements by more than a dozen lawmakers were ghostwritten, in whole or in part, by Washington lobbyists working for Genentech, one of the world?s largest biotechnology companies.

E-mail messages obtained by The New York Times show that the lobbyists drafted one statement for Democrats and another for Republicans.

The lobbyists, employed by Genentech and by two Washington law firms, were remarkably successful in getting the statements printed in the Congressional Record under the names of different members of Congress.

Genentech, a subsidiary of the Swiss drug giant Roche, estimates that

42 House members picked up some of its talking points: 22 Republicans and 20 Democrats, an unusual bipartisan coup for lobbyists. ....

The e-mail messages and their attached documents indicate that the statements were based on information supplied by Genentech employees to one of its lobbyists, Matthew L. Berzok, a lawyer at Ryan, MacKinnon, Vasapoli & Berzok who is identified as the "author" of the documents. The statements were disseminated by lobbyists at a big law firm, Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal." ....

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tell me anything useful is ever going to occur in this country as long as K-Street stands...

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G
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> Now tell me anything useful is ever going to occur in this country as

Sesame Street is not the only puppet show in the US. ; )

Reply to
diggerop

Greg G. wrote in news:o4nvf5tnfnnq2q2tj3fbvc4hsnrv3mq9t9@

4ax.com:

That is indeed scary. Especially when the congressman says he didn't know where his staff had gotten the script from.

What the guy said isn't as important as the way he came to say it.

I am in favor of compulsory very basic insurance for everyone, paid for as much as possible by the insured, whether as an employee benefit or by him/her self. On yop of that should be options to get more/better coverage. As long as you had been paying for coverage at any insurance company (including a publicly organized or non-profit one) they would not be able to deny you coverage. I'm sure there are more nitpicking things to state in a law, but couldn't that be the basis?

And if you choose not to get coverage for diabetes or heart disease, no covered kidney transplant or dialysis for you.

Reply to
Han

So who pays for this very basic insurance for the poor?

Reply to
J. Clarke

"J. Clarke" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news7.newsguy.com:

Just like now when they come the ER:

You and me.

If they are under preventive care (so the story goes), care should be far less expensive. At least in the long run.

The alternative would be accelerated dispatch, but that sounds so Nazi- like.

Reply to
Han

The ones who are already paying for it in the form of higher premiums to cover the costs of those who are not insured but rely on emergency room care.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in news:007bd58d$0$17128 $ snipped-for-privacy@news.astraweb.com:

Yep. My insurance even covers that - an 8% surcharge on hospital bills (in NY) to cover those who can't pay.

And that really means that with the reduced rates I get as part of a large group, the individual who pays higher rates because he only can get a private personal policy, pays even more. While I like paying the reduced rates, it isn't fair for people like my coworker, who has to pay COBRA rates for insurance.

Reply to
Han

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>>> Now tell me anything useful is ever going to occur in this country as

Exactly! Is this as big a problem in Oz, or are we unique in the venality of poly-ticks?

This OT was more about who pulls the strings than health care. They've gotten so lazy they don't even rewrite their talking points.

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

It's FREE. just read the newspaper and they'll tell you. Medical care for everyone at no cost. Its going to be just great.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 05:55:12 -0500, the infamous Greg G. scrawled the following:

So, issue seasonal tags for lobbyists, too, wot?

-- When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary. -- Thomas Paine

Reply to
Larry Jaques

You and me don't pay unless we go to the hospital for something.

So it's cheaper to sew up a knife wound or put someone back together that got hit by a bus if they have "preventive care"?

Reply to
J. Clarke

NOW you're talking change I can believe in! Just make certain it's a looong season.

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

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> Now tell me anything useful is ever going to occur in this country as

Absolutely! Who knows more about an issue than the people or firms who live with it every day. Who has more insight, a company with literally thousands of man-years of directly applicable diligence and effort or a first-term congressman whose major life experience is with alfalfa dryers?

Think about your local congressman. Do you want him setting the tariffs on hydrogenated yak-fat? Does he know squat about the ramifications of the "Law of the Sea" treaty?

The "problem" you cite - if there is one - is with the congressmen, not the interested party providing what it believes is crucial information.

Reply to
HeyBub

EVERY study shows that preventative care is WAY more expensive than to treat the result. Preventative care may be more beneficial for the individual, but it costs more.

Consider diabetes monitoring. Four hundred dollars for a doctor visit and lab tests every quarter quickly add up. Contrast this with a foot amputation if the diabetes is left undetected. Even at Obama's estimate of $30,000 for the surgery (it's more like $800), it's still cheaper to lose the foot.

Cost is NOT a reason for preventation or detection care.

Reply to
HeyBub

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>>> Now tell me anything useful is ever going to occur in this country as

The "problem" with K-Street (a metonym for influence peddlers in DC) is that they do not disseminate information that is in the public interest, but rather their own. If congressmen knew what they were doing, and weren't looking to become employed by these same peddlers of influence after being ejected from office, perhaps they would view them with more skepticism. As it is, they are simply buying influence over laws and federal funding from morons hoping to profit at public expense. There are many other sources for the information you mention that are unbiased - but there's no money in that.

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G.

Reply to
Greg G

Sadly, we have similar problems. The faceless men control politics in this country. Has been like that for at least the last 100 years. Who the faceless men are and what they represent changes at times, but too many elected officials are under the control or influence of people who are unelected and have self-serving interests. Lobbyists are part of the problem.

One thing I have noticed in more modern times, is that politicians from both sides, when they retire these days, in addition to generous superannuation and perks for life, seem to somehow have aqquired substantial business interests and huge assets along the way. Just lucky I guess. Union officials get lucky too.

Maybe that's why they call us the "lucky country" ?

diggerop

Reply to
diggerop

Sorry to hear that Oz isn't the utopia I'd hoped for. Back in the 80s I was determined to move there but got suckered into the US Constitution's "fair and equitable, all men are equal" justice thing. It wasn't...

The US media is so egocentric that seldom does one hear anything about another country unless we are dropping bombs on it. I read here and there, but it's no substitute for actually living there.

Lucky for you, not so much, eh?

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

If you feel you've been suckered into living here, why don't you move out? We won't miss you. Ta Ta!

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

And why they presciently named the movie, "The Wizard of Oz!" Watch that man behind the curtain... Or those men...

Cue the authoritarian tin foil hat conspiracy debunkers right about... now.

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

We? We who? Do you speak for everyone in the US? Or here? I happened to be born here, bought into all the BS they teach you in youth, then found that it's just that. Justice is bought and paid for every day. Weren't you the one who recently emailed me off list about the "evil lawyers?" Further, you don't know darned thing about my experiences with the legal system or venal politicians. Regardless of how I feel about this country, the people in it, and the potential it has, authoritarians en masse combined with self-serving public servants have let this crap get out of control and undermined the essence of what it was intended to be. If a general consensus wants me gone, I'll disappear. I should probably find something better to do anyway. Otherwise, you are free to implement your reader's filter. Ciao!

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

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