As a life-long Kansan, I love my state, but there are times when I want to hide under a damned rock. For those who haven't heard the nutcase a**holes from the Topeka-based Westboro "church" plan to protest her funeral.
%$@#&*
tiredofspam wrote in news:s6adnRclsaXVxZ_QnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@ptd.net:
Good idea.
As a Christian myself I totally reject the strange and unsupprted beliefs and actions of this group. They do not represent in any way the belief of Christianity as I know it. This type of hate is exactly the reason for the teaching about loving your neighbor.
The irony is that if we truly wish to defend freedom, speech like that from these people must be protected.
However ... I fail to see how they get away with forcing people to listen to them by interfering in private events like funerals. A free society guarantees you the right to speak freely. It does not guarantee you the right to have listeners.
The simple solution to this is to back these people far enough away so that they cannot disrupt an entirely private event. They belong on public property where they can exercise the 1st Amendment rights so any squirrels or other nut collectors that wish to listen ...
Yabbut.... Elizabeth Edwards was expounding the virtues of a man she _knew_ was having an affair. The prospect of becoming First Lady of the USA was irresistible to her.
It is tragic that cancer strikes the way it does, it somehow doesn't turn her into an angel.... that, in itself, is not a free pass for complete zealot f*ck-ups like Phelps and his hangers-on to disrupt a private affair... clowns like that are giving good-living christians the same bad name as those crazed muslims are tainting those who do NOT subscribe to insanity.
People need to learn to tear down the blinds that main stream media insists on draping before our eyes- Elizabeth Edwards was no better than that husband of hers.
That's where they operate, on public property. They protest on the sidewalks across from the funeral home, church, streets going to either, etc. This is all public property. The key, which was accomplished at a few funerals for soldiers, is to have more people lined up on the same sidewalk as the Phelps clan, with HUGE signs and flags blocking theirs. I'm willing to bet if this was accomplished at all of their sites of protest, they would eventually diminish. We outnumber them by thousands. Surely we can overpower their existence with a greater display.
across from the funeral home, church, streets going to either, etc. This is all public property. The key, which was accomplished at a few funerals for soldiers, is to have more people lined up on the same sidewalk as the Phelps clan, with HUGE signs and flags blocking theirs. I'm willing to bet if this was accomplished at all of their sites of protest, they would eventually diminish. We outnumber them by thousands. Surely we can overpower their existence with a greater display.
But merely being on public property does not guarantee the right to do whatever you want. There are public nuisance ordinances, for example, that prevent you from disturbing the neighbors or running naked through the streets. These people should be subject to the same restrictions - they are interfering with people involved in a private matter.
The Phelps clan has made quite a bit of money suing towns that tried things like that. Phelps Sr. is a disbarred lawyer, and I think a couple of members of his genetic-bottleneck family are lawyers, they know how to work the system.
whatever you want.
like that. Phelps Sr. is a disbarred lawyer, and I think a couple of members of his genetic-bottleneck family are lawyers, they know how to work the system.
Understood, but somewhere along the way, it would be nice for the government to actually defend *everyone's* civil liberties, not just the fringe lunatics.
I get - and support - their right to speak their piece. This is a cornerstone of a free society. I do not get why they are able to morph this into making everyone listen to their lunacy.
------------------------ His daughter is the legal eagle for the "business".
Lew
I agree. IMO their tactic is to generate publicity by doing something they know will cause anguish to the families of dead soldiers (and others). I do not think the law should protect speech which is designed to inflict needless suffering on innocent parties and then exploit the outrage over that loathsome practice. If it was up to me (and so far the courts have been curiously reluctant to seek my opinion on this or other matters) I'd bar such protests far enough from the gates of a cemetery so that the family can come and go without seeing these gibbering vermin.
One day some pilled-out trucker with a stack of alimony demands in his pocket is going to turn the wheel and flatten the Phelps clan during one of their roadside protests, and I for one won't shed any tears.
In article , "DGDevin" wrote: [...]
Nor will I. And I doubt that it would be easy to find 12 men who would vote to convict him, either.
genetic-bottleneck
know will cause anguish to the families of dead soldiers (and others). I do not think the law should protect speech which is designed to inflict needless suffering on innocent parties and then exploit the outrage over that loathsome practice. If it was up to me (and so far the courts have been curiously reluctant to seek my opinion on this or other matters) I'd bar such protests far enough from the gates of a cemetery so that the family can come and go without seeing these gibbering vermin.
is going to turn the wheel and flatten the Phelps clan during one of their roadside protests, and I for one won't shed any tears.
Yabut ... violence isn't the right way to solve this problem. Freedom of one citizen is always bounded by the freedom of another. We have a spineless government (particularly of late) that refuses to grasp this notion. Phelps and his mob must be free to peddle their ideas - however malignant. But I cannot grasp why the various governmental bodies don't get that the funeral attendees also have co-equal rights. Then again, I sort of do get it ... for some 70 years, the government has anointed itself as being in charge of who is- and who is not worth of particular rights and privileges... and "equal" isn't part of the formula...
Making her The Target.
The nutjobs' behaviour sounds a lot like the behaviour of brownshirt fascists to me.
They also sound a bit like terrorists.
I would ask the question, "Who benefits politically from their bad behaviour and what is that political beneficiarie's politics when you strip the facade back to frame and foundation?"
They are on a continuum. If government/law will not stop them, you have to ask *why* it will not stop them.
Follow the power.
I like this phrasing. It captures something I've known forever, but never been able to express so well. The closest is Oliver Wendell Holmes' "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."
Sidebar: I'd always attributed that to Will Rogers, but it seems the Internet has another opinion.
-- Doug
One way to counter them would be to picket, protest, and otherwise totally obstruct THEIR lives. i.e.: send a well-behaved mob to their church, homes, and place of business. Protest loudly all night long. Publish photographs of individuals at their business. Sic a PI on them and publish the dirt. Send a mob to THEIR gatherings (weddings, funerals, company picnics, graduations, church functions, &tc.).
And jam potatoes up the tailpipes of their cars (I learned that one when I was ~ 7 yrs old).
-Zz
-Zz
I will. The trucker will have to take the time to clean Phelps splatter from his truck and that could take awhile.
Freedom of the correct speech. Incorrect speech should be banned. OK......
...and who defines what's correct and what's not? The government? Then we'll have more complaints about gov intervention and slowly stripping our freedom away.
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