OT dangerous dogs

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Wrong, wrong, and right, in that order.

Which does not affect their status as rights vs. privileges. Despite what you think.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Well Doug, you have your right to your opinion and I to mine....isn't this country great!!!
My point still stands....Misbehave and you can lose them all.
TMT
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Fri, Nov 18, 2005, 3:08pm (EST-3) too_many snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Too_Many_Tools) doth burbleth: <snip> My point still stands....Misbehave and you can lose them all. Ah, but that only applies to law-abiding individuals, not criminals. Lawyers and politicians have seen to that.
JOAT Just pretend I'm not here. That's what I'm doing.
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To a point...the mighty fall too...it just takes longer.
TMT
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wrote:

Hmmm, ".... The RIGHT of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". vs. "... The privilege of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
Now, to your second point, with rights do come responsibilities. However, it seems that most of the responsibilities for those who make use of the second amendment are kept to a much higher standard than the responsibilities of those who exercise their first amendment rights.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:10:46 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

LOL!
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As I have said before, a right can be denied is a privilege.
Use a gun incorrectly and see how long your right remains intact.
TMT
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Cute semantic distinction, but I don't believe it is correct. What exactly do you think falls in the category of "rights" as you define the word? Some counter examples for you to ponder (at least making a distinction between how you want the word to be defined and how others use it) is the "certain inalienable rights" of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Since we routinely deny felons of their liberty and pursuit of happiness, and occasionally of their lives, I guess our forefathers should have said "certain privileges" to meet your semantic benchmark?
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

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Exactly Alex....there are very few "true" rights.
Gun ownership is not one of them.
Nor is owning a dog.
The saying "Abuse it and lose it" applies to many areas in life...driving a car, owning a dog, owning a gun....
While I am very much for RESPONSIBLE gun ownership, when I hear of someone's first impulse is to reach for their gun I seriously question that person's ability to remain calm in a high stress situation such as dog attack.
As society administers a driving test before issuing a driver's license, I think it would be a great idea to administer similar testing prior to allowing a gun purchase....or when buying a dog.
TMT
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It's the one that, if you live in the US, preserves the rest of your rights. How long do you think you'd be free to disagree with the government if the citizens were disarmed?
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I think you've lost it, Dave. I'm quite free to disagree with my (UK) government and neither I nor anyone I know owns a gun or is ever likely to.
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Bob Martin (in a4Bff.15258$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net) said:
|| On 18 Nov 2005 07:27:17 -0800, Too_Many_Tools
||| Exactly Alex....there are very few "true" rights. ||| Gun ownership is not one of them. || || It's the one that, if you live in the US, preserves the rest of || your || rights. How long do you think you'd be free to disagree with the || government if the citizens were disarmed? | | I think you've lost it, Dave. I'm quite free to disagree with my | (UK) government and neither I nor anyone I know owns a gun or is | ever likely to.
That's a tough argument to make to Americans, Bob. In the restored (British) Governor's Mansion in Colonial Williamsburg, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, the most prominent display was of *large* arrays of muzzle-loading rifles - to impress upon the colonists just who exercised the power to govern and by what means that governance would be enforced.
Neither the colonists nor their decendants have forgotten either how that power was abused nor what was required to to dismantle that misgovernance and to distribute its power among ordinary citizens.
We recognize fully that government /can/ be benevolent; but will remain so over the long term _only_ if the general citizenry are ready, willing, and *able* to say: "Thus far and no farther."
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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alexy (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| || That's a tough argument to make to Americans, Bob. In the restored || (British) Governor's Mansion in Colonial Williamsburg, in the | | Seen elsewhere, but relevant to this discussion: | | BRITS REVOKE USA INDEPENDENCE | | A Message from John Cleese To the citizens of the United States of | America: | | In light of your failure to elect a competent President of the USA | and thus to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the | revocation of your independence, effective immediately. Her | Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties | over all states, commonwealths, and territories (excepting Kansas, | which she does not fancy).
<remainder snipped>
Great humor! I would imagine that Mr. Cleese would be proud to have written it. :-)
Why wouldn't she like Kansas? Is she agoraphobic? (Seems unlikely.)
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:40:51 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote:

Three words were left out - "board of education" :-).
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Larry Blanchard (in snipped-for-privacy@fastmail.fm) said:
| On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:40:51 -0600, Morris Dovey wrote: | || || Why wouldn't she like Kansas? Is she agoraphobic? (Seems unlikely.) | | Three words were left out - "board of education" :-).
Of course! How could I have overlooked that? :-))
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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B.
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Buddy Matlosz (in YIMff.26286$ snipped-for-privacy@fe12.lga) said:
| || Does this mean we have to do this again? Okay, come on over and || prepare to have your butt kicked. This time, we'll even do it || without the French. || | How 'bout we do it TO the French? God knows they've been askin' for | it.
How so? They were a major help at the battle of Yorktown, they were an ally in two world wars and during the police action in Korea, they warned us about Indo-China, they shed tears with us on and after 9-11, and they did their best to tell us that our intelligence on Iraqi WMDS was incorrect so that we would not make ourselves look like liars and/or idiots to the rest of the world.
What have you noticed that I missed? Or does all of the above constitute "askin' for it"?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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OK, so what about the _last_ 230 years?

"ally" in the definition of "load to carry", yes.

They _caused_ the clusterfuck in Vietnam.

So did everyone else that matters.

Funny; they _sold_ a bunch of those WMDs to Iraq, so no wonder they didn't want us looking too closely at the situation. You _do_ acknowledge the tens of thousands of Kurds killed by the Iraquis with WMDs sold to them by France, do you not?

The French are useless on a good day.
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Dave Hinz (in snipped-for-privacy@individual.net) said:
| wrote: | || How so? They were a major help at the battle of Yorktown, | | OK, so what about the _last_ 230 years? | || they were an ally in two world wars and during the police action in Korea, | | "ally" in the definition of "load to carry", yes.
The attitude of the time as best I can recall was close to "He ain't heavy - he's my brother". By the time the US entered the war all of the other allied participants had already taken a beating. I don't recall anyone ever singling out the French as especially burdensome. I _do_ recall disgust with the Vichey government and total admiration for the Resistance, along with gratitude for the willingness of French civilians to take enormous risks to help allied aviators and GI's avoid capture by axis forces.
|| they warned us about Indo-China, | | They _caused_ the clusterfuck in Vietnam.
They also warned that we would also find ourselves in over our heads - as we realized after too many of our young men (also) were killed.
|| they shed tears with us on and after 9-11, | | So did everyone else that matters.
Exactly who, in your opinion, does not matter? There were a lot of people in the world who were not sorry to see the US take one on the chin. To say that those people do not matter would seem a most dangerous form of denial.
|| and they did their best to tell us that our intelligence on Iraqi || WMDS was incorrect so that we would not make ourselves look like || liars and/or idiots to the rest of the world. | | Funny; they _sold_ a bunch of those WMDs to Iraq, so no wonder they | didn't want us looking too closely at the situation. You _do_ | acknowledge the tens of thousands of Kurds killed by the Iraquis | with WMDs sold to them by France, do you not?
My understanding is that the US also provided Sadam's government with weaponry. It would be comforting to be able to believe that we weren't guilty of enabling those behaviors; but I doubt it'd be very realistic. I don't think we're in a very good position to criticize other arms suppliers on this issue - because we all screwed up.
|| What have you noticed that I missed? Or does all of the above || constitute "askin' for it"?
IMO, even if I accepted every assertion you made, that would still not provide any kind of sane justification for advocating action of any kind against the French.
| The French are useless on a good day.
To you, perhaps. I don't see 'em that way - and I confess that I've never felt that I had so many friends that I could afford to discard any.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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And The U.S. will pay just as much attention to the monarch as do Australian, Canada, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and most of England. To wit: not much. :-)
Kevin
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