Norm and safety

[Woodie]

Norm, being a man's man and a woodworker's woodworker, always stares the dangerous stuff right in the eye. Hence, no need for side protection.

[Doug Miller]

A useful criterion for determining the degree of safety of anything you're about to do in the shop is to ask yourself "If the wood suddenly disappeared, where would my fingers go?"

I think Norm doesn't ask himself that question very often.

[Lee Michaels]

Or as my old woodshop teacher taught us, "What would happen if you slipped or suddenly collapsed"? Then position yourself accordingly.

He would walk up behind people who were about to use a machine and just hudge them a little (not dangerously) to make the point. If you started to panic, you were not positioned properly.

The ideal was, if you suddenly died of a heart attack, there would be no injury to the body.

Wasn't it the Hell's Angels who had the motto, Live fast, Die young, Leave a goodlooking corpse?

[Robatoy]

Never sit down at a bar on a stool that doesn't have a back and armrests.

[eclipsme]

Romano in "Knock on any Door" Novel by Willard Motley Movie (1949) starred Humphrey Bogart, John Derek, George Mcready

Just happened to know that one...

Harvey

[LRod]

I would be very impressed if you could cite a single instance where he has done that. Episode is all I need. If he's done it, I'll find it, come back and tell you, and give you three days to draw a crowd.

I've seen him run lots of stock on lots of machines, but any time he has to venture near the blade/bit, he has a pushstick or jig. Always.

Too many people claim they've seen his hands near the blade and whenever I go look at the episode what I see is a long shot with telephoto from down low behind the blade. If you know anything about photography at all you would know that his hands could be six feet away from the blade but with the telephoto and low angle, they would look like they were within inches of it.

[dpb]

LRod wrote: ...

I've not watched a lot of Norm (wrong time o' day/day o' week and I'm not into taping, etc.) but I don't recall thinking he was doing anything I'd be uncomfortable with in any episodes I have seen...the one that was kinda' scary (and had the bandages to prove it) was Tom Silva on TOH but he was my "favoritest" of all to watch for all that for his common sense and skill set...I just don't follow his work habits all the time... :)

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[Puckdropper]

dpb wrote in news:g7tgi2$667$ [e-mail]:

Norm's on several times a day/week on one of our PBS Digital Channels. The network is called "Create" and they show several of the more popular how-to type programs.

Might be worth getting a digital converter box (or hooking up an old friend, the rabbet ear antenna) if you can get that channel.

Puckdropper

[dpb]

Puckdropper wrote: ...

:) All we have is antenna, and a rabbit-ear version wouldn't quite make a 70-mile closest reach transmitter tower I think...

I'm not sure the PBS translator will even be going to digital for sure (although the networks are of course) since the PBS folks don't have much for cash. I don't think they're doing anything like that, though, of alternate channels.

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[Swingman]

Hell, I'm impressed already ... at both your superior, condescending "final word" (albeit self appointed) knowledge of what Norm does and does not do; AND from your ability to unilaterally determine, from a distance and without being there, that someone does NOT occasionally cringe when watching Norm use a dado stack.

AAMOF, I'd have to say that it's you who should be given 3 days to draw the crowd for such an impressive talent.

[LRod]

Translation:

I was talking out of my ass. Not only can I not cite such an occurence, but I'll just cover up my ignorance with a lot of blather about what a pompous ass you are and hope nobody notices I was talking out of my ass.

[Swingman]

"LRod" wrote

Yep ... indeed you were:

"Hall Seat" epidose (DIY Channel) - 27:33/'rabbet in frame pieces':

Although Norm uses a push "stick" of sorts at the very _end of the cut_, it is not before this section CLEARLY shows Norm's left hand holding down the approximately 1 1/2" wide stock as it CROSSES OVER the dado stack!

This latter action is PRECISELY that upon which I was remarking in my original post in which you took such condescending exception as self-appointed arbiter of Norm as a paragon of safety.

Furtthermore, to argue, as you are doing, that Norm's actions, clearly shown above, does NOT make one want to cringe/look the other way, once again, does NOT fall within the realm of your possible knowlege, no matter your imagined divine omniscience.

Nice try, though ... there's more where that came from. Perhaps you should go ahead start drawing that crowd, eh?

[nailshooter41]

Well, nothing like the facts to ruin the fun, eh?

Somebody just tell me where to go.

And the response is......

drumroll......

Robert

[LRod]

Well, I just watched that three or four times, even went through it frame by frame to try and find what you describled. In fact, the push stick is clearly in use *before* his hand passes "over" the blade, so BZZZT, that's one.

By the way, the fingers of his left hand are never directly over the blade. The one thing I will concede, however, is the violation of the "where will it go if it slips" principle.

Your original statement:

Gee, no push stick mentioned there. Kind of changes the whole complexion of the statement when it turns out he did use one, doncha think? BZZZT, that's two.

And what is a "push 'stick' of sorts?" It looks to me likes it's one of the regulation, approved by the wreck push sticks he's been using since day one. Does it have to be endorsed by swingman before it's acceptable? BZZZT, that's three.

If the stock he used is 3/4" thick, then it clearly must be 2 or 2 1/4 wide. It's certainly more than twice as wide as thick. Moreover, the rabbet is no more than 1/4" deep and maybe 3/4" wide. That's not a lot of stock removal. Nevertheless, let's continue...

In fact, his left hand is clearly behind the insert (toward him) when the cut starts. You can tell, not only by the shadow of his hand but by the height adjustment screw in the insert. That's the telephoto fore-shortening I mentioned in my post.

As the cut progresses his left hand does come forward just beyond the adjustment screw. Then, when the cut is approximately 3/4 complete, his left hand moves back behind the adjustment screw and the push stick becomes visible. It's clear at this point that the push stick is just now being employed, but that shouldn't be a problem as the stock is on the order of 12-15" long.

Only in the last 3 or 4" of the cut does his left hand follow through on the top (but not directly over the blade) and side of the stock as his right hand pushes it with the push stick (not "of sorts" but a real push stick, by any reasonable definition).

So, while it is true that his left hand passed over where the dado blade would be if it was 4" wide, it was working under the stock. And, it's clear that it was the only hand (not "or both"). It's also clear that it was at the end of a very light cut (I wouldn't think a 1/4" by

1/2" cut ranks as a lot of material removal).

So, if it makes you happy, you got maybe 1/4 of it right in your original post.

:I've seen him run lots of stock on lots of machines, but any time he :has to venture near the blade/bit, he has a pushstick or jig. Always.

:Too many people claim they've seen his hands near the blade and :whenever I go look at the episode what I see is a long shot with :telephoto from down low behind the blade. If you know anything about :photography at all you would know that his hands could be six feet :away from the blade but with the telephoto and low angle, they would :look like they were within inches of it.

Clearly I didn't remotely come close to challenging what you felt. What I challenged was the assertion that Norm engaged in a wildly, unsafe, heretical practice...oops, you're not going to respond well to a little hyperbole, I just know. Let's leave it that what you said you saw doesn't come close to how it was actually done, and I couldn't care less whether you cringed or not, nor did I remark on it.

You probably shouldn't read my posts. They really seem to work you up. This isn't the first time. But it's my last on this thread.

Oh, was that condescending?

Good.

[Swingman]

"LRod" wrote

We'll see ...

Your loudly self proclaimed prowess as an arbiter of Norm's safety habits (with which _you_ unilaterally began this unwelcome little pissing contest), have been shattered with direct, visible evidence for anyone looking on to see for themselves.

In addition, you have been reduced to the level of name calling, which, in black and white, speaks for itself for all to see, and for which no further argument on your part can change.

If you wish to continue blustering in the face of the very evidence you requested, knock yourself out.

Without further participation in this pissing contest (which _you_ initiated), I'm perfectly happy to let those who take the time to look make up their own minds.

Bluster on, Bubba ... and better luck next time.