New shop suggestions (long)

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If the DC is in a closed room then it needs some type of venting whether it be back to the shop or to the outside. It's nice to be able to do both as it sometimes gets into the lower temps here in Phoenix and if venting the DC outside the make up air comes from outside as well. Pulling in sub-freezing(1) air into the shop is not always a good thing!
Gary
(1) I think one day this season has it been sub-freezing but several days where the low was in the upper 30'sF
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I recently upgraded the service in my shop to100 amp. The cost difference between 60 and 100 amp wire (which was an 85 ft run in my case) was about $15, so definitely go 100 amp. Putting the AC and DC in a seprate room is the way to go. I'd just frame a few walls and insulate them. May not be sound proof, but i'll deaden the sound considerably. You'll also need to put a vent in somewhere. I'd recommend putting one about the same size as the return air vent in your home. Put it in the door, wall, or wherever is convienient, just as long as you have one. You'll never completely deaden the sound of those machines, but just enclosing them will make a HUGE difference, so don't worry to much about the vent negating the sound barrier. If my shop was three car and not two, the third bay would definitely house a finishing room. Have a good one! --dave

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<snip>
Another thought, Brian - I live in SO Calif where it does get a bit hot on occasion. My shop is my two car garage. Was going to put in a ceiling fan just to keep the air moving and cool things down a bit but I wound up buying a Delta Air Purifier instead. I was surprised that the movement of air from that filter was comparable to a very good ceiling fan, AND I get the filter factor also. Just a thought.
BTW, did you check with your tract rulers about noise from your shop - also, if it's a commercial venture - any restrictions on that? Just some other tract sxxt to worry about.
I HATE homeowner's associations!
Vic
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<johnny carson> I did not know that. </johnny carson>

Even in the last neighborhood which was orwellian, no one ever complained about that noise, even with the garage door open. I doubt it will be an issue. I like to play music sometimes though so I usually keep the door closed for that.
brian
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brianlanning wrote:

100 Amp is probably OK since you are just 1 person and the most you will probably have on at the same time is a DC, air filter, lights, fan or AC, plus the machine you are using. A multi-person shop with multiple machines running at the same time might need more.

An idea I've mulled over myself, but haven't executed on save for installing a couple of 220 outside outlets when I originally wired up the shop.

If you aren't heating or airconditioning the shop, venting to the outside would be an option, depending on how much dust you generate and where it is venting to.
A return through the wall between them with filtration would also work. Here's a thought, how about mounting an air filtration unit in the wall between the 2? That way the filtration unit would definitely get the fine dust, right at the source.

6", at least for the main lines. Also on branches that have a big machine that's set up for, and needs, a bigger duct (eg 20" planer).

I hate drywalling too, as well as trying to mount anything to it. I used 1/2" OSB on walls and ceiling. After hanging the 1/2" on the ceiling though (heavy), I wonder if 3/8" wouldn't have been a better choice for overhead.
I did mount a 4' x 8' sheet of pegboard horizontally on 2 walls in place of the OSB. Since my walls are insulated, I put a heavy sheet of black plastic (can't spell vis-queen?) behind it to keep the insulation dust in the wall.

I have a window unit for heat and AC. I just stuck it in a window because it was quick. I plan on remounting it through the wall to get back the light eventually.

Ceiling fan works great in my shop, but make sure you put it somewhere where you won't be swingung a board into it.

--
Remove BOB to email me

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Put the compressor and the duct collector/cyclone in a little room. Ply both the inside and outside of the walls - after filling the space between the studs with old rugs, sheet rock pieces or whatever. Mass stops sound. And go with a solid core door - with weather stripping. The resulting semi- sound proof room will also be fairly air tight so you'll need to get air in AND out from some where other than the inside of the shop. Run an air intake into the space from outside - low on the wall, and another into the attic with a a flapper valve Put hardware cloth over the air intake - keeps critters out of the shop.
http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/DustCollector.html
Oh - and BEFORE you fill the space between the studs - cut the holes for your DC piping and at least two holes for compressor lines. Will save yourself a lot of grief - DAMHIKT.
charlie b
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charlie b wrote:

That may not be the best bet if there are air gaps between the filler bits. You might consider insulating the walls themselves, then using mass-loading on the panels. You can buy prefab panels, or adhesive mats, or other stuff. Just google on soundproofing walls.
Chris
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Thanks for the input. I guess it would be better to put something other than plain old insulation in the walls around the DC and compressor. I'm not sure where I could get old rugs from though. Gravel might be a good idea. I wonder how much of this is overkill though. If I can get 90% of the way there with just osb on both sides of the studs, I have to wonder whether that would be enough. It looks like I'm going to have to have an air return in the wall or something.
Maybe the air return back into the shop could be a muffler from a large deisel truck. I think it would have to be tuned for whatever noise the two machines made though. It would be interesting to cook up some sort of muffler type device out of plywood that would cancel the sound waves, but still let enough air through.
Intakes or venting to the outside is probably out of the question since heating is a major concern.
brian
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The only thing I can think of is if one of my kids got majorly into woodworking. All three of the girls (oldest kids) expressed an interest but I won't let them use any of the machines yet. I'm having a belt/disk sander delivered tomorrow with plans for two other sanding machines. I think I'd let them use those in addition to the scroll saw. In those cases, I could see two machines running at once. I think a bigger liklihood is a rotary phase converter with a 24" northfield 3-phase jointer I plan on getting at auction for $100. :-)

Like what? I was thinking my only real practical option was an A/C furnace filter over an opening near the ceiling. Maybe with a plywood board covering the filter, but on stand-offs maybe 3" from the filter. It would let the air out, but hopefully reflect sound back into the DC room. Were you talking about some sort of electrostatic device or other machine?

Based on the design of the house, and considering I'm currently living in a different model from the same builder, I'd be surprised if there wasn't drywall already on the ceiling and on the walls facing the house.

It's a 10' ceiling in the garage, and the lights will probably hang lower than the fan anyway so that the fan blades don't case shadows.
I've been talking with swmbo about the situation. She's agreed to put the compressor in the basement when it eventually arrives. She seems ok with the framed opening for the window A/C also. Maybe an A/C with a built in heater solves that problem also.
brian
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brianlanning wrote:

I was actually thinking about something like the Jet AFS 1000 air filtration unit I have mounted on the ceiling to filter the shop air. But, it would have to match or beat the airflow of the DC. However, I just did a little more investigation and my DC is 1550 CFM and the Jet is 1000, so no dice, for me anyway. I'd need a bigger filtration unit or 2 of them. Maybe though, go with your idea and just use the same filters the Jet uses (they are a 5 micron followed by a 1 micron). Should work better than AC filters.

--
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If you orient it the right way, you may not need the motor at all, right? If the DC is running, the air will want to leave the sealed room. And if you give it a convenient path through the air cleaner, it should go that way.
I'd cook something up with filters that you can wash out. Or, they make electrostatic air cleaners for furnaces. I wonder if they'd be up to the task. Furnaces move a lot of air.
brian
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