Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I
type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad.
If the weather cooperates I should have a shiny new slab at the end of the
It will be a combination woodworking/mechanic/metal shop with
the meatal working portion sequestered on one end, 36'X72'.
My requirements were for something relatively inexpensive,
low maintenance and somewhat fire proof- slab on grade, cinderblock walls,
steel trusses on 12' centers and galvalume roof, fits the bill.
Once the blocks are laid all the work will be mine from that point
I'm building out of pocket and the work will have to stop for a couple of
months after blocks are laid, mostly due to the fact that the college my
eldest daughter goes to suddenly decided that they would no longer accept
tuition payments by the quarter, only in full and upfront, a large expense
I was not expecting.
Pictures when there is something to see.
36 ft X 72 ft
Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, give
or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down,
for instance, gravel delivered at cost(friend in trucking business),
poly to go under slab was acquired from a rail reloading yard, enough for
5 layers of fiberglass reinforced poly, concrete at $30 under market/ yard
(friend in concrete business), concrete block factory that will sell
direct and only 20 miles away, already been given enough 4/0 entrance
cable for run from nearest power box (150ft)etc, etc.
Even with all this I could have put up a Quoset type building for
somewhat less, but damn those things are ugly.
Inquiring minds and all that... :)
What's eave height going to be?
I've ached for a enclosable-enough machine shed/shop area since returned
to farm -- the old barn is a little bigger footprint but too short to
get anything bigger than pickup into and alleyway designed for wagon
means even the 3/4T is hard to get out of when in...
The old machine shed was fine for the 30's-40's but it's only 24x40 and
only 10-ft height. I can get the big truck (barely) and the manlift in
but it's 3/4 full after doing so and it's just a homebuilt pole barn.
It is surely cold in winter and hot in summer to try to have to work on
I had thought to put the woodworking shop in the barn loft but it'll
take putting together a lift of old forklift mast or some such and it's
still not heatable or even feasible to consider closing it up tight
enough to try...
But, at this age it's hard to bring self to spend the amount req'd when
not that long a horizon ahead any longer...could have built a Morton or
similar for the amount put into the old barn restoration but just
couldn't stand the thought of it going away--it's the last old wood barn
left in the county that I'm aware of that isn't nearly completely gone
The one thing that keeps me from doing something like this, or an oversize
garage/shop is that the additional taxes (which are based on the market
assessment vs. the cost) and utilities would be unpleasant.
For example, a friend of mine built a house by himself with about half out
of pocket. Including the land he had about $150K in it. The tax assessors
decided it was worth $450K based on comps... The guy was working for the
town at the time and his wife was not employed. Getting hit with $16K tax
bills on a $45K salary about killed him... he had to change jobs and
eliminate about everything but food from his life. They are virtual
prisoners in their home between the taxes, mortgage and utilities... his
truck is aging and the RE market is down. Another friend increased the size
of his mud room by about 20 sq feet while replacing the rotted out one and
got totally creamed on his reassessment. His case is a good example of why
people don't get building permits!
While I figured out that I could put up a building myself, with similar help
from my friends, for around $15-18K it looks like the assessment would be
more like $50-60K at a minimum. That would add at least $2K, and likely much
more, to the tax bill each year forever... The last time the area was
reassessed they increased one of my properties by 285%. Yes, two hundred and
eighty five percent! With the help of a realtor friend of mine who pulled
comps for me I successfully documented and fought it. At the same time I
personally knew others who had similar things happen who flat out lost their
appeals because they tried to argue it was "too high" without anything to
back it. Adding additions or new structures to my property opens me up to a
reassessment that could be very difficult to fight... Adding in maintenance
and the additional utilities to make it usable year round makes keeping my
shop within my existing footprint very attractive... and forces me to keep
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:08:10 -0400, John Grossbohlin wrote:
Great guns! I don't recall what the assessed value of my property is but
in real dollars of worth to dollars paid in taxes it works out to $2.50
taxes to 1000k in prperty value. Property in AL is usually under assessed
not over assessed.
The last time the area was
Property taxes are low here, and as the county I'm in has no permitting
structure it may be years before the shop even adds anything to them.
They will add it at the next physical assessment.
Power company doesn't care what you do as long as you pay your bill
and don't do something idiotic to shut their system.
I had the foresight to put a 400 amp service in my house and everything
feeds from there.(albeit at the expense of running heavy cable underground
all over the place)
One of the nice things about Proposition 13 - it limits increases to 2% year
from the base value (assessed when the home was purchased or had an addition
(and the 2% is a maximum increase - mine has been adjusted _down_ twice over the
twenty years during economic slumps).
And the tax rate is slightly over $10 per $1000 assessed value when sewerage
and various school
bonds are summed in (call it 1.1%)
The downside is that municipalities and counties have to rely on state funding
sales taxes for revenue. The upside is retirees can plan for their property
well in advance without unpleasant surprises.
$2.50 per million? Alabama has the lowest property taxes in the nation but
that's ridiculous! ;-)
I assume you mean $2.50 per hundred? Even that sounds high for Alabama. The
taxes on my Alabama house are closer to $.50 per hundred ($1500 on $300000). I
haven't gotten the assessment for the GA house yet for some reason.
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 8:08:10 AM UTC-7, John Grossbohlin wrote:
Hey, they didn't build that on their own. They need to pay back the gov't for all the roads and briges and the teachers that help them make it to where they are. It's only faor that the half of the population that is paying taxes pays more if they have any success from their hard work so those who aren't paying taxes can still get all of their freebies.
Yup... as long as the part of the population that votes for a living grows
at a faster rate than the part of the population that works for a living the
problems will continue and will get worse. We clearly haven't learned from
the failures in Europe....
I'll second that! I love the infloor heat in the garshop. It's
especially nice if you need to open the big door for some reason. The
temperature drops some, but recovers quickly.
Do make sure you install air conditioning. A building that size is just
too big to be unlivable for 4 months of the year. (If you're in AL, that
might be 6.) I don't have AC in the garshop, and haven't been able to do
a serious woodworking project in almost 3 months.
Wood heat, cheap and readily available when needed, some years we
won't have any days when it doesn't warm up to freezing, when working
(unless gluing) anything over 45f is fine with me.
Will have gable fans to reduced inside temp to ambient, AC would be nice
but that's not going to happen, too expensive to operate in a block
It's all what you are used to anyway, I was thiry five before I ever lived
or worked in air conditioning, and still spend a great deal of time
outside at work and home.
Al heat/humidity + lack of any sort of noticable wind speed, can be
brutal to the unsuspecting, on the other hand I doubt I would survive a
winter in Canada.
On 04 Aug 2012 11:08:46 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
Nah, Alabama isn't nearly that bad. Generally mid-June to mid-September it's
in the 90s, with mid-July to Sept-1 the worst. Yes, we're in the middle of
the worst. :-( The other nine months, it's beautiful. It's a *lot* better
than the four good months (July-October) (maybe) we got in Vermont.
I've moved my tools (except drill press, compressor, and DC) to our house in
Georgia - waiting for the heat to break so I can get a shop set up in the
2000+ sq.ft. basement. ;-) It's uninsulated, though (really dumb), so that's
the first order of business for this Winter. I won't need heat but I'm
already thinking about AC. There are two 150A service panels in the basement,
half full, so I should be all set. ;-)
On 8/4/2012 10:52 AM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
I did regular insulation in my basement, it doesn't work that well.
Some , but could be better in the winter.
Not sure how much of an advantage that is in the south.
My ground temp is about 56degrees 2 feet down, year round.
So it feels cold in the winter, but comfortable in the summer.
I assume you have a higher ground temp down south.
On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:01:17 -0400, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
It's half studded. The only basements here are where the house is built on a
hill, so it's a walk-out. I won't bother insulating the concrete. The "frost
line" is only 6".
In VT the frost line was officially 4' but it wasn't unusual for it to go 6'
and several water mains down 8' burst one Winter. If it's a cold Winter after
a wet fall with no snow cover the frost line can really get down there. My
basement got *cold*.
Lots. ;-) Like I said, the official frost line is 6" and I doubt it gets down
that far for more than a week (last Winter, not much more than the grass tip
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