-- When you said earlier that the next step was a "10m solution" , I thought about two pumps as well, but with a tank buried half way, stepping the water up. Might need to consider overflow or dry tank conditions; but, if the pump is self-priming, a dry tank shouldn't cause a problem for the top pump. Just a thought.
Ed
I haven't. I suspect that future NGO involvement might be appropriate, but none of what's happening now with this stuff involves any kind of management or accounting structure, and the only accountability any of the participants has is that of being true to the laws of physics and to their own conscience.
All aid-providing organizations /must/ ensure that assets are used responsibly, which imposes exactly those things which would be most counter-productive at this stage. These folks do /not/ need administrivial distraction.
What's needed right now is creative problem-solving of the /very/ highest order, and I don't think that can be bought for money. Fortunately, while it can't be bought, it's already being given.
Later, when (as soon as) there's a version 1.01 of a proven well pump with a known cost, /then/ may be the right time for NGO involvement.
So what /would/ help? I think the folks who're doing the work would benefit most from exactly what I've gotten here - a healthy dosage of affirmation and approval from those who happen to notice what they're doing.
That probably sounds pretty lame. It isn't.
I like simple, too. Ok, you get the first 10-year stint, and after five years of non-slacking tracking, you'll receive a new pair of welding goggles. :-T
I think the economics (everywhere) are in favor of a more energy efficient solution - and I think we'd all prefer to see that kid in school.
Good news, indeed.
I just copied your post into my "Things to Consider" directory, and will encourage you to keep that challenge on your back burner. We still have a lot to learn about is and isn't reasonable, and I suspect that what we learn with shallow wells may very well influence our thinking for deeper wells.
Thanks!
A clockwork mechanism pops into my head.
Mutter, mutter. Moving that reflector and keeping it steady in winds would need a fairly robust mechanism. Probably weight driven -- simpler than springs and probably cheaper, given that you need quite a bit of energy to drive the mechanism.
Some kind of funky cam to track the sun and return during the night. You need an escapement. It doesn't have to be real accurate. A pendulum is easy, but a balance wheel might be more reliable. Naw. Use a pendulum and enclose it in a box with the weights and mechanism. A couple of dozen parts. Most could be stamped out of aluminum or hand made with a file and a few jigs. Mutter, mutter.
These solar cookers were all over Tibet, even places that had other sources of power:
You probably are already doing this, but one obvious way to cool the cold side is with the water being pumped out of the ground, which is normally significantly colder than ambient air temps, at least during summer.
WayneJ
Best of luck in getting your designs recognized. This is truly great stuff and it is people like you and your collaborators who will end up saving ourselves from our current folly.
Luigi
Luigi
The "clean" way to do that appears be to be adding a water jacket to the cold head, and route the well water through that jacket.
The problem is that when the well pipe drains (or starts dry), that jacket will stay dry until the pump has cycled enough times to bring water up to fill it. Then the air-filled jacket will allow heat to build up in the cold head, and oscillation will halt because of an the resulting insufficient heat differential.
The "dirty" method is to simply splash the discharge water over the cold head, which will solve the cooling problem but opens the door to a host of other problems - including contamination of the well.
At present both hot and cold heads are 24" sections of the tubing used for semi truck exhaust stacks, with a flue cap (thimble?) brazed to one end. That's the Iowa version. The Pakistani version used different materials, and others' will be adapted to suit what's available locally, which makes standardization an interesting issue. :)
DAGS - pneumatic sun tracker. First hit:
ditions.
guess was to use two pumps - one
That's about the only way you can do it with a pump. You have to push the water up from the bottom, you can't suck it up. The other kind of positive displacement "pump" would be an Archimedes' Screw.
I have an idea for a valve. It approximates an artificial heart valve.
I'd use a data acquisition module from Dataq:
Grainger sells tubing insulation made from closed-cell foam, something like
With the proper design, carbon fiber components can be easily built, can withstand relatively high heat, and are strong/light weight. I've got a friend that is a guru in this area. He calls his garage the "Central Okla. Military Industrial Complex." Would be glad to put you in touch with him.
Dowsing rods. Other than that, you either need to go high tech/ expensive.
Would be glad to help more with these ideas. Contact me off-list if you're interested.
Dan Major Bespoke Consulting and Design LLC snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com
It should be possible to arrange the pipe connections to the jacket such that the jacket does not empty when the well pipe drains. If the ASCII drawing stays intact, this would be an example. The drawing is a section through the jacket and the cold head. I realize the drawing of the cold head is probably incorrect, but the concept should be adaptable.
___| |___ _______| | | |_______ IN \ | | OUT _______ \ | | _______ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |___| |___| | |
The water in and out pipes are at the same level. A deflector at the opening of the in pipe causes circulation in the jacket while water flows. When the pump stops and the well pipe drains back air enters at the out pipe, but only the water above the bottom of the in pipe will drain out of the jacket. At start up, the substantial amount of water in the jacket will sink enough heat to allow the pump to start the water flowing. The size of the jacket may need to be adjusted to ensure reliable start up but it shouldn't need to be very large. The jacket would have to be primed for a dry start and drained if freezing conditions occur.
Agreed, this is probably not a good idea.
Is standardization needed or desirable? Use of local resources would seem to be a good thing.
Is there a better place to continue this discussion? Perhaps it is getting a bit OT for rec.woodworking.
WayneJ
I use a lot of check valves for all sorts of things at work and home, there are none available for any price that are long lasting and that actually seal. You can have one but not both. I remember the old hand well pumps had leather flap checks, very easy open, and perfect seal, best of all the repair was dirt cheap and quick.
Dousing rods?
basilisk
You can safely bet that this (or something very like) /will/ be tested because the possible performance improvement is so attractive. :)
It's an interesting aspect to consider, and there's a powerful urge on the part of "geeky" types (like me) to maximize efficiency, and it's not always so easy to remember that the primary objective is to move water, not build a technical marvel. :-/
When I got really tough with myself, I decided that it might be wiser just to get a minimal pump working and leave refinement for later. I'm absolutely certain that, once it's working, more people will become involved and there will be no shortage of improvements. With luck, at least a few of those improvements will provide breakthrough (technical quantum leap) enhancement.
You're right, there is - this is completely topical in news:alt.solar.thermal - and my e-mail address is publicly available (and all mail with "Solar" in the subject goes to the front of the queue).
Those are pretty neat, and there's a strong resemblance between the fluidyne and a _half_ of one of those pumps. Where Yamadas operate on a supply of compressed air, the fluidyne operates on the pressure of expansion and contraction of a fixed volume air and substitutes a fluid piston for the diaphragm piston.
I remember watching an uncle replacing a kitchen sink pump leather with a new deerhide leather. IIRC he spent more time deciding from where on the hide the new leather would be cut than on the actual repair. :)
I suspect there will be more than a few of these pumps with leather flappers.
tough, we would refer to it as 'pompleer'.
You are welcome to keep it going here guys. It's a hell lot better and more interesting than all the political scientology (tmTW).
Luigi
Robatoy wrote in news:76e18788-c30a-4feb-a848- snipped-for-privacy@r36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:
pompleer = pump leather Crazy Dutchman, of course ...
You are welcome to keep it going here guys. It's a hell lot better and more interesting than all the political scientology (tmTW).
Luigi
I'll second that : )
I only posted here because I knew there were a few folks who've had in interest in some of the solar stuff (and because I like to share good news with friends).
I'm happy to answer questions when and as best I can - but the best place for ongoing discussions of this stuff is next door in alt.solar.thermal
This has been fun for me because the other newsgroups seem to fill up with people who like to intellectualize a thing to death, and the wreck has an abundance of people who like to roll up their sleeves and /make/ things.
Fear not - I'll bring this up again when there's more news to share... :)
Well while it's still here, I have a couple of questions. Have you successfully pumped water from a significant depth using the collector you describe? What was the depth and what flow of water did you achieve? Did you have good conditions (clear sky, bright sun) for the test?
Thanks, WayneJ
No (haven't tried). N/A. N/A. If I had done the test, I would have done it on a clear day with bright sun.
I've only been working on engines, and although I recently picked up a pair of PVC check valves, they're still sitting on the bench. Strange as it may seem, I'll probably be the last of the group to build a pump - and may never, since my part of the job is rapidly turning into that of advisor, coach, and cheering section. The work that I had been doing is being spread out enough ways that shortly I may be able to retire from the field - no longer being needed is one of my criteria for success. :)
The lads in Pakistan did pump some water, but not from any depth (and they seemed to have some problems with both their pump connection plumbing and with their too small bore spring-loaded check valves). I haven't heard from them since just before graduation time, so don't know if they're still working on their pump (I'm guessing maybe not at present).
I've shifted my development efforts to an all-metal design that uses the trough collection pipe itself as the hot head - so we'll all have to wait for a report from Argentina to know how well this pump performs.
To my knowledge, this pump isn't a re-hash of anything that's been done before. My web page with the pump design was posted only a day after I e-mailed the original drawing to Argentina, and I posted here while that web page was still in preliminary form. What you're seeing is a snapshot of in-progress R&D, and "Team Argentina" is, indeed, pushing the leading edge.
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