Joiner?

Do you guys think a bench joiner is worth getting? Or should a person get a stand-alone? Whats your opinion?
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On 11/26/2013 9:57 AM, Morris Sasser wrote:

Worth getting if you want to straighten short boards. On the other hand I had a stand alone joiner for 20 plus years. It was the least used machine in my shop and I got rid of it about 3 years ago.
I don't buy rough cut boards I fi need to straighten a board I use a track saw.
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On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:11:12 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

80% - 90% of my work is with rough cut or recycled lumber. I use my stand alone jointer for almost all my projects. I suppose at least half of my jo inted lumber is 6' long and longer. I have separate roller supports for in feed and outfeed. I suppose bench jointers are/have very short beds, so th ey may not be the best for longer (and heavier) stock.
Additional Comments: For working recycled lumber, have 2-3 sets of extra blades, for when they g et nicked, and especially for pre-facing (I often discover previously misse d nails, tacks, etc.) prior to using the planer, if applicable. Probably mo re so with recycled lumber, referencing my practice for getting nicks in th e blades, often, learn (and make a jig) to sharpen your jointer blades, rat her than sending them out to be sharpened. Self sharpening is less expens ive.
Sonny
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On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:08:54 AM UTC-6, Sonny wrote:

jointed lumber is 6' long and longer. I have separate roller supports for infeed and outfeed. I suppose bench jointers are/have very short beds, so they may not be the best for longer (and heavier) stock.

sed nails, tacks, etc.) prior to using the planer, if applicable. Probably more so with recycled lumber, referencing my practice for getting nicks in the blades, often, learn (and make a jig) to sharpen your jointer blades, r ather than sending them out to be sharpened. Self sharpening is less expe nsive.

Same here, Sonny. I use a lot of recycled and rough cut wood. I use my benc h jointer (and thickness jointer) all the time. I don't get many nicks in t he blades because I use a Lumber Wizard metal detector on every piece of re cycled wood that goes into my machines. It was kind of expensive (100 bucks ), but it's paid for itself many times.
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I've got a smaller hand-held metal detector that was about $20. Every time it catches a nail or screw that I missed, it's paid for itself. New planer blades are about $50, so it doesn't take very many missed nails to make a metal detector worthwhile.
Approximately how far down does your Lumber Wizard reach? I usually have to scan all four edges on a 2x4 to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Puckdropper
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Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

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On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:27:19 PM UTC-6, Puckdropper wrote:

Here's the info from the manual: Under ideal conditions, and with a properly tuned unit, the Lumber Wizard III can detect: a solid piece of metal at approximately 6” deep a large deck screw at up to 3”; a medium nail at up to 1.5” a paneling nail at up to 3/4” a wood staple at up to 3/8”
This sounds about right in my experience. I will say that some people (prod uct reviews I just looked at) who have bought the Lumber Wizard III have fo und that it breaks and customer service is terrible. I have had mine for ye ars, at least five, maybe eight (tempus fugit), and it's always worked well for me. If I was going to buy another, I would probably get one from a com pany that is better known, like Garrett.
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Smaller tools do not necessarily allow you to work with smaller pieces of wood. If a 1/2" thick piece is too thin for a large jointer, it won't be any better with a small one. With the larger one, at least you'll be able to work larger pieces.
I do keep a "bench jointer" nearby in the form of a couple of hand planes.
Puckdropper
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:57:27 -0800, Morris Sasser wrote:

The rule I've heard is that the longest piece of wood you can joint is twice the length of the input table. IMNSHO, that might even be stretching it.
So I wouldn't go for a benchtop. I've often wished my 6" Jet was an 8" longbed.
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On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 9:57:27 AM UTC-6, M Sasser wrote:

Which one? What name brand? Possibly a $50 one might be a reasonable buy, depending on its use. There are old 4" Delta-Rockwells and Craftsmans that can do lots of tasks, very well.
I, personally, would stay away from "Taiwan-like" made benchtops.
Sonny
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On 11/26/2013 7:57 AM, Morris Sasser wrote:

Rough cut wood requires some work to be usable.
Lots of folks buy S2S or S4S and it doesn't require as much work.
Most bigger cabinet shops have a jointer but again that varies with the type of work being done.
If you build a lot of plywood boxes and add hardwood face frames, a jointer might not be needed.
If you build a lot of hardwood tables and cabinets, a jointer would be a great help.
Bigger is better in the jointer world.
Here is a bigger:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?idU92
Here is what most folks end up with:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id 956
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On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 9:57:27 AM UTC-6, M Sasser wrote:

You can probably score a nice 6-inch jointer for under $200 on Craigs List. I think I paid about $150 for my Jet and it has served my hobbyist requirements nicely.
Larry
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It depends on the type of work you do. I've never owned a small bench top jointer, so I can't judge how valuable they'd be for smaller stock.
About 95% of the time I use my jointer for edge straightening -- and about 5% on facing cupped or twisted stock. My jointer is only 8"so I have occasionally rented time on larger ones.
It's not a tool that's used that much. Usually you run stock over it once or twice and that's it.
I know some woodworkers who also make tapered legs on their jointers.
What do you plan to use it for?
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How big is the wood and what do you want to chop, edge or face?
For edges and relatively short pieces, I'd just as soon use my router table. I have a 6" joiner, bed - in & out - around 4' but I don't use it much, just seems easier to join edges with the wood riding on its face.
For edges and long pieces, I'd still just as soon use the router table.
For faces I use my drum sander.
So no, I don't think a bench joiner is worthwhile. If you want a joiner, get one with a LONG bed.
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Morris,

If I had to choose, I would probably get a 6" or larger free standing jointer. A small bench jointer would probably only be useful for small projects like model making.
That said, I have managed to get by without a jointer for many years. I'm not sure where I would store the extra machine anyway.
I use my planer for many tasks that a jointer might be useful for. I find that if I take multiple passes, flipping the board over between each pass, I can usually clean up any cupping, minor warping, or thickness variations. This may not work for a board with serious warping, but I would probably cut that into smaller pieces and use it for something else anyway. Or, you could build a sled to hold the board steady as it passes through the planer.
I also straighten/smooth edges of boards by ganging them together and passing through the planer on edge.
You can straighten a warped board on the table saw by attaching a straight edge as a reference to guide along the fence. For minor imperfections, I simply make several small passes, trimming just a little off the edge, flipping the board on each pass. I glue up a lot of door panels and I can usually get glue ready joints with that method.
You could also use a track saw to make a straight cut.
Another option is to use a straight edge and a router with a pattern bit.
Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com
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A faster alternative is to knock down the high spots with a scrub plane, an d run it through the thickness planer. It doesn't have to be all that smoot h, just close. It does take a bit more muscle power, and I've used it for b oards too wide for my jointer, yet will go through my thickness planer.
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"Morris Sasser" wrote in message

If you have the option of either I'd get a floor model of at least 6" width (8"+ is better for face jointing). Longer beds are important if you are using long stock... I went from a 6" about 4 feet long to an 8 inch about 6 feet long as the stock I was jointing was so big I had the 6" standing up on edge, i.e., it was dangerous! There have been more than a few times that I'd wished for a 12" wide jointer... but with various techniques got by with the thickness planner.
On the rare occasions I use S4S rather than rough cut I don't think I've ever had a board straight and flat enough to use without jointing. Sometimes grabbing an L-N No 5 or No 7 bench plane is the right option while many times the Delta DJ-20 is the right option.
I find a jointer to be a critical tool in my shop (whether electron or meat powered).
John
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On 11/27/2013 9:46 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote: ...

Agreed...it's the first in any stock preparation. Then again, I'm of the age before there were the high-powered routers and all so my habits are ingrained from 50+ yr of prior use.
As others have said, other ways are possible but to me it's indispensible.
Iff'en were starting a new shop I'd seriously consider the newer multi-machines to get an equivalent-width surfacer to the capacity of the planer. Probably best use of limited floor space for moderate to large work. If limited to smaller work, the alternatives w/o would be more attractive.
IF size weren't a restriction I'd go to old iron and an old 16" Crescent or the like...
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