Ok, I had someone come over today and help to setup
my machines. We looked at the 20 yr old joiner that I
bought a couple of years ago and got the bad news.
It's got bad bearings, tho they aren't yet totally shot,
and there's a dish in the in and out tables.
So we were talking about what to do and the
answer was to junk it. The price of new bearings,
fixing the dish and some other work that needs to
be done probably would total close to $200 - 250.
I'm tending to just junk it out, perhaps keeping
the in/out tables for sharpening (the dish isn't really
very large but large enough to cause problems
in joining) and maybe the motor and knives
and that's it.
Anyone have any luck with a similar problem?
What tipped you one way or the other?
I agree. Bearings are fairly inexpensive, as long as you buy them from a
bearing supplier instead of from the manufacturer of the tool. If you're in or
near a city of any substantial size, chances are you can find something fairly
easily in the Yellow Pages.
Lack of flatness in the tables is a bigger problem, but any machine shop with
a surface grinder should be able to take care of that for you.
I suspect that a little time spent on the phone will reduce your cost well
below the $200-250 you anticipate.
Finally, you should be able to get a lot of good advice on procedures and
sources of parts at the Old Wood-Working Machines site, www.owwm.com .
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 11:12:06 GMT, firstname.lastname@example.org (Doug Miller)
Last one-off surface grind job (an anvil face) I saw was $80 for that
I imagine I'd fix it though, if the jointer was basically worth it.
Certainly bearings are an easy swap in most jointers (saws can be
I'm having trouble with this "unacceptable warp" in the tables though.
Just how much are we talking about?
A couple hundred at least and a fair bit of time mucking about with
it...I don't know. Unless it's a larger jointer I'd be tempted to
sell what you have, as is, on Craigslist or some such and trade up.
Can't say what I'd do for sure until know what it is -- other than it's
20 years old, you told us nothing of any real value.
If the tables are dished and you can get a surface grind job for $200 or
less it must be relatively small and a lower end import -- in that case,
I'd not invest any more money in it.
Fri, Jun 15, 2007, 8:56am (EDT-1) email@example.com (dpb)
<snip> If the tables are dished and you can get a surface grind job for
$200 or less it must be relatively small and a lower end import -- in
that case, I'd not invest any more money in it.
As usual, prices would depend a lot on location. It would cost a
lot more in say a San Francisco or New York City machine shop then it
would in a small rural town machine shop. If it would cost more than
what I'd be willing to pay, I'd figure how to do it myself.
If a man does his best, what else is there?
- General George S. Patton
with out knowing the size and manufacturer it hard to tell. If it's 8"
or bigger and a high quaility machine, sure buy the bearing from a
supplier, not the manufacturer, and send the offending iron part to be
machined. lower quaility 6" you can replace fairly cheap, with a newer
better machine. and if possible (read that have the room and money)
consider 8" or better. hope this helps.
Thanks to all to have added their comments.
Here's the parts I didn't tell you.
It's a 6" Grizzley. Unknown manufacture date, but
the copyright on the manual is 1983. I don't know
nor did I look up on Grizzley's website to know
if they have a date of production for this machine.
I will get some estimates to
smooth out the tables and if I could get them
BOTH done for about $75 - 100, the joiner might be
useful until I decide to replace it. The bearings,
like I said, are not yet gone and the blades
are in very good shape. The biggest cost I would
think would be resurfacing. If I can get that down,
it would make a diff. Oh, I live NORTH of the Golden Gate,
about 50 miles. Rual yes, but still very suburban.
I think I might need a new belt, but that's minimal dollars
So, it's not an 15" or even 8", grand ole iron (Watkins, Delta, etc.),
it's an earlier 6" Griz.
Does that change your thoughts now?
Yeah...early Griz ain't what later is, in general, so at least one
That said, bearings, assuming they're a standard size and weren't
something OEM-specified, would be pretty inexpensive and a relatively
simple fix. One would assume one can get them from any local bearing
distributor--if so, that's at least an "even"...
The dishing is something else again--my initial inclination is if it is
really badly enough dished to be a visible problem in getting a straight
edge, it's probably too much to take out by surface grinding.
It normally wouldn't be a dish in the table that would be noticeable,
anyway, but a "droop" or "rise" in the tables themselves from either
wear or maladjustment of simply inaccurate ways.
Can you demonstrate the tables overall are co-planar but dished or is
there actually a problem overall in getting the infeed and outfeed
tables aligned w/ each other? That is a far more likely scenario to
cause actual observed problems in operation than some minor fluctuations
in the bed itself.
Also, is the outfeed table adjustable or fixed? Are you sure you have
the knives set at the right height relative to the outfeed table? What
is/are the symptom(s) of the wood run over the jointer? Knowing that we
may be able to diagnose the type of fault(s)...
Thanks for your comments. My responses below:
You're right there. My friends estimate was about $35 for them. But
they aren't shot yet meaning, still good. Might be useable in
the state they are in for 30 or more hours? Who knows, but it
would mean testing them often.
No, we tested the beds and found them to be even across the
entire machine. So they ways are good. The dishing is not
a whole lot but more than what my friend would recommend
and he's a master woodworker. He teaches woodworking
and has an excellant eye for this work. I trust him completely.
We didn't get a chance to run wood because we ran out of time
and spent a good deal of the remaining hrs of the day talking
about the joiner itself. He pointed out the dishing, etc. He took
out one set of knives and adjusted them, but not completely and
the machine is disassembled at the moment, waiting on my
The more that I think about it, if it cost me $200 more to fix it
up (I think I spent $200 to buy it 3 years ago and it sat for
all this time), I'd rather pony up another $300 to buy a new
Jet or Delta 6-in, have a warranty, a better motor, flat
tables (I'd test them and have them replaced if not flat). etc.
I appreciated your thoughts on this. I hate to see something
useful go to scrap, but I don't think this machine is
all that useful.
Pardon the expression, but that's bogus BS -- a bearing in a fairly
light-duty application like a 6" jointer isn't going to go from "good"
to "unusable" in 30 hrs. If it's going to fail in 30 hrs, it isn't any
If there's detectable play, they're already bad and should be replaced.
If it's only that the jointer hasn't been used for a while, they may
be dry and a shot of lube may well quieten them down. Unless you're
going to be doing a whole lot of work, I suspect they could well outlast
you unless they are already discernibly bad enough that there's no question.
That may be, but sounds like he may be one who's more interested in the
machine than in wood. You're not machining metal to mills, here. Specs
on good-quality machine beds (like Delta, Powermatic, etc.) are in the
3-5 mill range so unless yours is much worse than that you could well
find as much or more in a new machine straight off the truck.
You haven't even run a single piece of wood across it to check and
you're getting ready to junk it? Again, not intending to offend, but
that's simply ludicrous. I fully expect that if you were to sharpen the
knives, adjust them properly, and learn technique for jointing, it would
do work good enough to match or exceed the rest of your skill level for
some time to come with no cash outlay (other than perhaps the bearings).
IMO, ymmv, $0.02, etc., etc., etc., ...
Again thanks for the input.
You made some very excellent suggestions and I'm still
"on the fence". Ultimately, I have to consider
what I would like to do and thinking at the minimum,
I could "lube" the bearings and then adjust the knives
and then see where I stand. It's the least I could
do, and your "gentle" prodding is spot on.
Again, thanks for your responses.
If nothing else, you quite possibly could get most if not all of the
cost of bearings if you were to sell it if it ran quietly instead of not...
But, as I read, sounds more like you're trying to justify a new machine
and hoping somebody here will back you up. You should know that here we
only say "atta-boy" after the decision has been made and the new iron is
home and off the truck... :)
Seriously, if you're just starting into woodworking, I strongly
recommend not being unable to "see the forest for the trees". Unless
this dishing is extremely bad (and we're yet to see a single
quantitative measurement or location on the bed of these imperfections),
consider that most cabinet workpieces will be from a minimum of 12-18"
to several feet in length. The length of these will span the overall
length of the bed and wouldn't be able to follow these local high/low
places anyway. Only if the bed is actually concave or convex over it's
entire length is it likely to be a problem at all, and if there were so,
the measurements you say your friend took wouldn't have shown the infeed
and outfeed tables to be coplanar as you have said they are.
Another way to think of it is analogous to the beginning violin student
-- a Strad is a fine instrument, but until the new pupil has mastered a
fair amount of technique and skill, the difference between his "starter"
practice violin and a Strad wouldn't help his sound much at all.
I meant to add -- to have the tables reground _correctly_ requires the
whole jointer be surface ground as a unit, not each table individually.
(That's how they do them at the factory after initial fitting.)
Thus, the size of a surface grinder needed to get it done that way is
the length of the overall bed which is a machine a small machine shop
ain't likely to have. Otherwise, they have to do one bed, then remount
the whole thing making sure they have the overall alignment correct from
the previous to within about 3-4 mills over the full length and do the
other table. The setup charges alone will be two-three times what
you're talking, I'm sure...
See my other response for what I think is more likely going on...
In addition to the above remarks, I would give grizzly a call. They may or
may not be able to help. But they could give you some ideas as to what your
options may be. They do have all the machining capabilities to repair their
machines. I have no idea what the rates (or shipping costs) would be.
That's a good point -- being set up to do it as opposed to the extensive
setup for a local shop could conceivably offset the shipping costs.
But, it's still foolish to think it needs anything of that magnitude at
all until he's at least tried to set it up and use it unless there's far
more indication of a serious problem than provided so far.
Nothing against his buddy, but he sounds like one of the anal-retentive
types more interested in the machines than in woodworking to me, or else
trying to "show-off" his expertise and getting bogged down in minutiae.
Of course, he may have known and OP misunderstood the significance of
the so-called defects, too. Who knows???
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