Old joiner - what would you do?

[Russ & Lynn DeVall]

[scott]

I'd look into fixing myself as others have stated, you can likely use it just fine and not have any issues. Bearings are cheap. You'd be paying for new metal on things you already have for a new one - like the stand, the motor, controls, etc and all you need is a little TLC. I don't proclaim to be an expert, but perhaps if it really bothers you you could take something that is known to be flat and put some sandpaper around it and try to scrape the table flatter. Soon it will either be flatter, or your arms will be tired and then you will be more likely to accept the small imperfections w/o as many reservations.

For what its worth, my Griz table saw side tables were not flat when I got it. I'd align the ends to be flush and middle would be high. After examining it I compromised on the setting, and although not worthy of anal-retentive examination, it works fine and I've made some decent looking projects.

S

[BillinDetroit]

MJ Almost certainly the dishing is acceptable. If you continue to have doubts after making a few test cuts, and if you have a die-maker friend, have him measure it for you and make his recommendations. The table is a bearing surface ... having it manually 'spotted in' (by a qualified guy) would actually help wood move across it more freely than before.

Here's my 'two cents worth'.

Before I did anything else to that machine, I would sharpen the blades, carefully re-install them (there is a LONG thread in this group about how to do this at least two different ways), set up the tables as if I didn't know about the dishing and run a few test cuts. Maybe the bearings are junk ... maybe they aren't. In any case, unless you are just itching to own a different jointer, it's worth it to at least give it a trial and, if you still think they are bad, look into replacing the old bearings. As others have pointed out, the cost of new bearings is usually quite manageable.

HTH,

Bill

[Father Haskell]

For a low-end import, pack the surface with Bondo and level it, then start saving for a better machine.

[mjmwallace]

Bill,

Want to thank you, DPB and others. I have a line on another "free" joiner that might be better (model, power,etc) than this one. If that one is better, I'll do a "restore" on it (not sure if it needs anything right now). I did measure the dishing of the one I have. It measures about .004 - .005 over a 6 - 8" span on either bed about 3 - 4 inches from the cutter. It is possible, like DPB, you and others have suggested that it won't be big deal. I'd rather get a new one, but I'm also like to keep this one, if it were worth it. Sounds like for the price of bearings (when they wear out) it might be fine.

But to all, thanks again. Bottom line, I might keep it but it depends on this other joiner. Tho SWMBO told me to go ahead and buy a new one, I'm going to wait a bit.

BTW: Grizzley says: We appreciate your interest in our jointers. The flatness is .002" per foot.

-- (Asked for their tolerance on their joiners).

MJ Wallace

[dpb]

[e-mail] wrote: ...

NOW the story is out! :)

I don't think there's much chance that will bother significantly for virtually all cabinet work. Again, on the assumption as you've stated before that the beds are _overall_ coplanar, then a piece of material

12" long or longer (which is really about the shortest one will normally consider joining anyway and usually quite a bit longer) will be bridging those areas most of the time and unless one deliberately pushes down on the end during the time it is in that low spot (which again, would only be a few thousandths off perfect anyway) it's still riding on the high spots. Proper operation of the jointer transfers pressure from the infeed to the outfeed as the stock passes over the knives, so direct force on the inward side end of the piece shouldn't be applied anyway.

I repeat -- until you tune this puppy up and use it some, this is all idle speculation and looking for a justification for the new machine...

If you want it, go for it, but here you're needing a better excuse. (Now SWMBO may not be quite so savvy so it'll probably work at home). :)

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[scott]

Let me know if you live near Houston, I'd like to try fixing that old POS you have.

Scott

[Father Haskell]

Is that dishing from wear, or from shrinkage, which you should expect from cheap, unseasoned iron. In the latter case, I've heard you can pop the tables flat by laying them upside down over a couple of 2x4s and standing on them.

[mjmwallace]

FH,

Got it used from a man who build furniture for a store he had. Had a full shop and I only wanted the joiner.

He claimed he never used it much. Not much wear on things but I really can't see how you can pop cast iron?

Thanks,

MJ Wallace

[mjmwallace]

Scott:

Thanks for the offer. Unfortunately, I live north of the Golden Gate and Houston is more than a 2 hr drive!

But if you're ever in the area.... let me know.

MJ Wallace

[dpb]

Not likely to happen and even more unlikely to result in a more desirable configuration afterwards than before even if it did...

It is true that rough castings are "aged" before final finishing and it's possible (even probable?) an inexpensive table didn't have the benefit of as good a process in manufacturing as did a more expensive one (and, of course, there are generally reasons why cheaper products are so).

It was pretty neat on the tour of the Powermatic facilities in McMinnville years ago to see the piles of castings "curing" out in the yard. Some of them were perhaps 10-15 ft high/deep. I forget now how long the shop foreman told it was before they were brought in and finished but it was a couple of years I think...it was new knowledge for me at the time.

--

[Father Haskell]

UL, I guess, then. Time to burn my old stack of Fine Woodworking mags.

It's why bench planes in the past 30 years have been cast with ribs, as a shortcut to keeping them flat. My vintage Baileys don't have them, and don't need them.

One year is standard.

Is it also UL that stock racing engines are machined out of older blocks to make warpage less likely?

[dpb]

I've read virtually every issue of FWW since about mid-year of V I with the exception of a couple of years I let subscription lapse back 15 years or so ago. I remember lots of tips & techniques but I don't recall ever reading of this one there....not to say it wasn't there, but I surely don't remember it and I've read a lot of 'em... :)

I can't imagine it being feasible at all and certainly not anything reproducible.

What any given manufacturer is doing now, I don't know--given costs and competition these days, wouldn't doubt it.

I don't know what PM had for a minimum for sure but I'm still pretty sure the shop foreman giving me the "cook's tour" said more like two. The time was longer than that on average, though -- they had something otoo 3-4 years' of production in the yard of most major castings at the time. These weren't just little piles of 10-15 castings here and there--they were _big_ piles of hundreds and multiple piles of 'em! Mind-boggling to see. This was in about '79/80 or thereabouts. I moved to TN in '78 and it was a year or so afterwards I bought the PM-66 and picked it up on site simply for the opportunity to invite myself in for a tour... :)

That I have no information but my first guess would be "not"...but it is only that.

[Father Haskell]

Must have been between years I and IV then. I've still got the wooden jointer plane I made from the plans in volume I, issue I. ;-)

Every metal has a Young's modulus, aka yield point. Cast iron's YM might be near immeasurable, but it's there. IIRC, once you get the table popped, it stays popped.

Shoprat paradise.

PM's finish is among the best. Did you check out their grinding department? Must be impressive to see rows upon rows of tops being Blancharded, 3 at a time per machine.

If a used block is going to warp under sustained near-redline driving, it probably already has.

[dpb]

Father Haskell wrote: ...

Of course, but if you look at the ribbing on the bottom of a typical jointer table, they're ain't enough room between to stand on anything except rib and it would certainly take more than a couple hundred pounds to move it.

I peronally think it's wishful thinking at best and just plain hokum at worst...

imo, ymmv, etc.,, ...

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