French Door with side lights install question

Page 1 of 2  
Installed a French Door where a window use to be. It has side lights that open. The Double Doors are fitting tight the side lights are fitting just right. Have done all the necessary shimming and everything is level and plum. Not sure how I can get the gap between doors to open. The jams on either side of doors are fixed and changing the shims would not effect the inside doors. These are steel doors, wondering if planing is the only option?
Would ask this question in one of the home repair of house fixit sites but those folks are usually a-holes. Thanks for any advice Rich
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Planing a steel door...? Do you mean it's a wood cored door with steel skins? If there's exposed wood on the edges of the door, you could plane it down, but you can't plane down a steel, hollow-core door. You could grind it down, but that would likely make the door a mess.
If the doors were a prehung unit, then there's something wrong with the installation and by _far_ the easiest thing to do is to pull the unit and reinstall it.
R
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
RicodJour wrote:

problem. 1/4" gaps on the jams to studs, shimed and all level. I'll have to take a closer look at it today. Side light doors fit perfectly on both sides.
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Look to see if the frame next to the door is parallel or warped. IOW is it tight for the full length? or just in certain spots.
I would suspect you installed your wedges too tight or the unit was warped to begin with and you shimmed it in that way. Now the mounting screws didn't pull the frame back to correct.
For small amounts shave the wood edges but a new door shouldn't need this. Look again and you should find it after a night's think.
Its wood core on the edges, foam with steel skin. Can't see an install problem. 1/4" gaps on the jams to studs, shimed and all level. I'll have to take a closer look at it today. Side light doors fit perfectly on both sides.
--




Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Josepi wrote:

Loosened the top screws and shims on both side of the top and middle. But not sure that would have any effect since there are side light doors and the shimming would change those gaps not necessarily the middle french doors.

--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Where exactly is it binding, and how much would it need to be planed? Hold a square in the top corners of the door opening against the jambs and see if there's some creep there. The threshold was part of the unit when installed, right?
You said everything was level and plumb, but you didn't mention square, which is critical. What are the diagonal measurements of the door opening? They need to be the same for it to be perfectly square.
R
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
RicodJour wrote:

with staples and I know have a tendency to loosen. But that should effect the side light doors and they are fine. Leaving in a few and will check square at top of jam.

--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

They sidelights are not a problem and since they're narrower any misalignment would have less of an effect. Forget about them.
Prehung doors are banged out in a production line and often have miscut hinge gains, stripped screws and other avoidable defects. If you did not check the operation of the door before installation, and verify the squareness and such, doing so after it's installed is a bit late in the game. It's entirely possible that the door was defective when you got it.
Plane the edge, it's only 1/16" and that is what it's there for.
R
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
All suggestions, so for, are pretty good. I would add, also, were the doors finished or unfinished? Maybe some moisture got into the wood and the doors expanded a little. If this may be an element of the problem, then allowing the doors to dry, then seal, may help. Make surer the edges of the doors are sealed, also, not just the interior/ exterior faces.... albeit/them steel clad.
Otherwise, I'm thinking, plane whichever edges you can.
Sonny
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
RicodJour wrote:

sharping. Its basically useless. All is fine and customer is happy. I don't like doing that but I spent to much time trying to tweak it and whatever I tried went for not.
I don't like messing with those doors to much because they are pretty flimsy. I move the doors to the location then take off all the crappy packing straps,blocks,and crating material. Don't trust those staples. Have had to remove them when the idiot or machine missed.
Thanks for the advice.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The last batch of pre hung interior doors I got (for my student built house project) was of such poor quality workmanship, that we will probably hang our own door slabs and trim them.
Anyone else notice that, lately?
--
Jim in NC




Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Lately....? Try for years. It's like they take the trained monkeys that finished at the bottom of the class at Monkey Training School. Correcting a badly hung prehung takes longer than hanging a slab and you still end up with an inferior end result.
R
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I guess it has gone from repairable to non repairable, and from barely not acceptable to totally unacceptable.
I only buy a bulk amount of doors once every two years, for my student built house project. It makes changes like this more dramatic and noticeable, I guess.
Are you a contractor, and do you hang your own doors from slabs, now? How about a quick survey from contractor types out there reading the group?
What do you all do for interior doors, nowadays? Prehung or hang your own?
--
Jim in NC


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Student house project? Sounds interesting - elaborate, please.

Yes, and yes.

I will use an exterior prehung from a quality manufacturer, but I still hang my own exterior doors if I find a door I like. I like doing it. It also allows me to upgrade hardware to 4" ball bearing hinges and bronze saddles (Zero International is about half an hour away), and everybody appreciates that stuff (and pays for it). I love seeing people _playing_ with one of my doors - opening and closing it repeatedly just to watch it move effortlessly and click into place.
Houses have very few moving parts that are frequently operated, and those parts should be of the highest quality, not the lowest. Interior prehungs have nasty features, like radiused jamb edges that run into a radiused jamb header and that leaves a gap, oversized hinge gains, skimpy stops, and nasty brass 'finish' hinges, etc. R
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I teach residential construction in a rural NC high school. The school bought land adjacent to the HS and opened a road into it to create a small housing development. We build a new house and action it off when it is done, about 1650 square feet heated, full basement, 2 car garage, 3 bedroom, 2 bath. They are aimed at new home owners, or perhaps downsizers or retired folks. We have a masonry dept, carpentry, electrical, and agriculture gets involved at landscaping time. Home economics chooses dcor, and drafting classes draw the plans. At times, we also build a full set of cabinets for the house, but that sometimes pushes the time line. A new house is started every two years, with the goal of drying it in the first, finishing the second.
It seems like it is a long time to build a house, but when you only work on it for about 2 hours a day, it takes a while, plus given the fact that you have to teach how to do each new skill, and sometime do the constructing, then tearing it out and doing again, as many times as is necessary to get it right.
Excellent program, for those truly interested in it, but sometimes it is a challenge to keep from murdering the students that are not all that interested.
The house sale results in a little profit, which is put back into buying equipment for the vocational classes that are involved in the construction.
I guess I am going to have to get my door hanging router template out that I bought several years ago, and learn how to use it!
--
Jim in NC


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Morgans wrote:

bravo for your local area to have the foresight to actually train people to do and make things.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
chaniarts wrote:

learn everything on my own.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Su-perb! What an excellent thing to do. You're very lucky to have adjacent land for that, but programs like yours could work in a lot of places. Even in a depressed urban area. New Orleans comes to mind.
Post the web site link, J. I'd love to see more about your program.

Is there a maximum age for your students? I'd like to work only two hours a day. ;)

Murder?! Shocking. BTW, they're called "job site accidents".

There should be more programs like yours. Sustainable education is at least as important as any other kind.

Ah, a fellow tool junkie. Nothing like having a backlog of tools that have never been used. It gives one another reason to keep on going. Eventually there will be the eureka moment..."ya know, that tool would be _perfect_ for this!"
R
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You know, we don't have any web site for it. I will think about that, and try to put something together in the next couple months.

Yeah, right. Those two hours of work represent many hours of hair pulling, on my part. Right now, I am teaching a former mason to be my teacher assistant. He is a fairly quick study, but you know, he is still a mason. You know what a mason is, don't you? It is a carpenter with his brains bashed out!

You don't know how tempting that has been!

Yes, my mom's brother was a journeyman carpenter, and had retired and selectively selling off some of his tools that his son did not want. I saw his router door hanging set, and wanted it. It is a set that clips together with rods, so you go from frame to door with the same set, and it mortises the hinges reliably and accurately. I have not picked it up lately, but it is either a Rockwell or porter-cable, I think. I will get the thing out and learn how to use it, when I get one of those elusive round-tuits.
--
Jim in NC


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:20:15 -0500, "Morgans"

I've been a finish carpenter for way too many years. We work our own exterior doors on occasion but never work interior doors anymore. My suggestion for those having trouble with pre-hung doors is to never buy them from the big box stores and look around for a local supplier that machines their doors onsite. I can think of 3 different lumber yards that machine doors locally. These guys will give you the choice of any option of door, jamb, stop, hinge, back-set etc. that you can afford and give you much better/quicker service if you do encounter a problem.
Mike O.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.