Early Morning Planning

[Charlie Self]

I love this time of year, early morning before it's light, and nippy air that helps clear the head. Today, I need to cut some cabinet doors, and I don't want to waste plywood, so I was standing outside thinking it out--this sometimes works better than pencil and paper--when I realized my rural area was suffering from a bit of light pollution that wasn't here a few years ago.

I think it's these blasted dusk to dawn insurance lights. Every small church has at least five (insurance companies require them at every entrance and every obstacle of certain types). Many houses, including one across the road, and two others a quarter mile up the road, have one.

I guess those are basic directional pointers for thieves, much like a sign saying, "Hey, here's something worth stealing".

But I did get the placement figured out for my two doors. I can warm the shop and get those cut today.

Charlie Self "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H. L. Mencken

[Eric Johnson]

I don't mind the farmers when they are out near the livestock but I drive by a place on the way to work and they have mercury vapor d.t.d. lights literally screwed to the north and south gable ends of their new country home. Makes me want to knock on the door and ask 'em if they're afraid of the dark why did they move out here. I was thinking you were going to mention the northern lights we've been seeing here in southern WI for the last few days. Now thats light pollution I can live with.

EJ

[WoodMangler]

Charlie Self did say:

Just how difficult is it to create light fixtures that direct all of the light DOWN? One of the great things about where I live was the night sky. Now, I get to see about 75% of it due to the streetlights glaring skyward.

[Swingman]

Except for the nonexistent nippy air down here, I know what you mean - a perfect time to think and plan. I walk most every morning at 5 ...might see one car in motion, and maybe one or two early rising joggers, but being in the middle of a big city the light pollution is just that ... however, it couldn't hide the moon, Jupiter and Venus lining up real pretty this morning, very low on the eastern horizon.

[Chris Hornberger]

I wholeheartedly agree with the "afraid of the dark" sentiment. I moved about 50 miles away from Philly recently to rural (but growing - I can't complain too much I guess - I'm part of the problem) Chester County. My local development doesn't have street lights, per se, but relies on each property's post lamp. It's enough that I can walk the pooch without breaking a leg, but not so much that I can still stop, look up and see more stars than the city-bound folk have ever seen.

Growth sucks, but every single one of us who moves off to "greener pastures" is part of the problem. It's up to us to try to keep things as we want it. I won't let them put street lights in once I'm a member of the home owner's association. I like it quiet. I like it dark. I like the (relative) solitude.

[Chris Hornberger]

Swingman - you have yourself one sweet little shop, there. Nice work.

I'm still battling with the wife over just how much of the garage I get as "mine". So far I'm trying to do woodwork and a motorcycle restoration (my '82 Goldwing -

in one half of a two-car garage. Needless to say, I have a lot of mobile bases for my tools. Mobile, as in, "let me drag it over here where there's 2 extra feet of space".

*sigh*

[Swingman]

Thank you! Luckily SWMBO feels the same way about garages and cars as I do ... contrary to many these days, neither of us sees an automobile as an extension of our persona/ego, so we've never been concerned with, and see the foolishness of, housing them in their own $eparate $pace in the climate we live in.

That leaves the "shop", as small as it is, my domain in its entirety.

[Chris Hornberger]

Keep her. She's a rare one :)

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I wonder just how much oil we could save by turning out some lights. Flying into a city airport in the wee hours I see thousands of street lights, but don't see any traffic. Entire industrial parks are well lit but no one working. Businesses have signs lit on their closed stores and no on on the streets to read them. Just seems plain silly.

[Leon]

Oddly, we could probably save a bundle of oil and or coal but it may cost us more for less light. A couple of years ago I went to the PUC web site to compare electricity charges by different companies that produce electricity. I was shocked to find that home owners pay about double the price that big users use. IIRC some where around 7500- 10,000 kwh of usage per month the price of electricity came in at 5 cents per kwh. I pay about 10 cents per kwh.

I am sure there is some law against it but why couldn't a whole neighborhood be a single customer/customer and each home owner pay for his usage of that total billed to the neighborhood.

[John Thomas]

"Chris Hornberger" wrote in news:6cOdnYiFk-RBjQ [e-mail]:

Or do like we did, and buy old.

Comes with the added bonus of built in ww projects. And thus, the need to acquire more tools. Win-Win, all the way around...

Regards,

JT

[Charlie Self]

Eric Johnson responds:

Yes, well, this is a bit too far south for the nothern lights. I have missed them for a long, long time now.

Charlie Self "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H. L. Mencken

[Charlie Self]

Chris Hornberger responds:

I moved to this area about 28 years ago as a geographic cure for a failing marriage. It didn't work immediately, but the area did. I selected the area mostly because it was well away from anything, but close enough to 2 small cities for shopping. It has now become something of bedroom community for Lynchburg & Roanoke, unfortunately. I watched the same sort of thing happen when I was a kid in NY, in Westchester County. It is unfortunate, expensive, and the results are nasty.

That said, if I ever had to deal with a homeowner's association, I'd probably shoot myself.

Charlie Self "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H. L. Mencken

[Juergen Hannappel]

[...]

Think again. Who produces the problem, you, the esteemed woodworker or the homeowner's association? Then decide on whom to shoot.

[David Merrill]

Consider joining or contributing to the International Dark Sky Association"

or, better yet, bringing their recommendations and your concerns to the attention of the local/state government officials who oversee public lighting.

These are exactly the problems they formed to combat and they have achieved some success in some states and localities. Yes, outdoor lighting can be designed to shine only in controlled directions (downward). In fact, its more efficient (saves money) that way.

David Merrill

[patriarch]

Juergen Hannappel wrote in news: [e-mail]:

The problem is the sociology of the shared decision-making process. Some folks are not suited for that. Those that recognize those traits in themselves make a wise decision to avoid the problem.

Woodworkers, and others who, at times during their hobbies, make loud noises or more dust that usual, tend, at times to be 'difficult' neighbors. It's just fine, if we cluster together, though.

Patriarch, a total Neander after 9 pm...

[TeamCasa]

"Charlie Self"

In a recent vacation to Kona Hawaii, I was struck by the lack of light in the evenings. It didn't take long to figure out that the whole island has a light restriction. The Keck Observatory. It really was nice, compared to the virtual daylight of LA.

Palomar,North of San Diego also has light restrictions, but not nearly the scale of the big island.

Dave

[patriarch]

"Leon" wrote in news:Inqkd.26135$ [e-mail]:

It is the notion of municipal retail utility distribution. Where the city manages the 'natural monopoly' portion of electric and/or gas distribution.

I've lived in a town with such a system. It was just fine, and less expensive than one would expect. They now are installing some of the fastest residential and business broadband services in the country, at aggressively low prices, after waiting for the 'big boys' to get off their backsides for years. That REALLY gets the lobbyists and propagandists going.

As to whether there are laws against it, it differs in every area. However, laws can be changed.

Patriarch, closet populist

[Chris Hornberger]

Might just have to move there. I'm bucking for a job that allows working from home 100% of the time, so maybe this time next year it's worth investigating. hmm.....

I do love my dark nights.

[patrick conroy]

Wow - wouldn't you know it? I leave and they show up...

I grew up with Yerkes Observatory *literally* in my backyard.

Was educated about Light Pollution from an early age...

IIRC - they did say that the adoption of Na lights would make things easier. Easier, I suppose, to filter out the one wavelngth.