dust collection gripe

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On 03/06/2016 8:59 AM, dpb wrote:

Oh, also...as you'll note on the Pentz site, it's pretty concerned about dust as opposed to simply chip collection. If you're after that level, it'll take a _lot_ more CFM than the 350-400 at each tool that has been the norm. That's shown in the tables there. I've not been terribly concerned figuring there's far more grain dust and such from farming that has no chance't of collecting than what I'll ever make from sawdust... :) For others, have to make own decision on how strict to be in comparison to commercial/OSHA/EEU guidelines.
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On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 7:11:01 PM UTC-6, Larry Blanchard wrote:

It would, but where would the challenge be? ;-)
Seriously, you are absolutely correct, there should be a standard for all dust fittings.
Deb
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On 02/29/2016 4:44 PM, Dr. Deb wrote: ...

Is...biggest problem is folks are using non-dust-collection stuff for the purpose (PVC, primarily).
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On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 17:28:58 -0600, dpb wrote:

You obviously haven't looked through the racks of adapters at Rockler, Woodcraft, et al. Most have nothing to do with PCV and the like.
For example, what prompted this gripe was one of those little cyclones that fit on a 5 gallon bucket. They are designed to use with a shop vacuum and therefore 2.5" connectors for both in and out. But they're the exact same size as the fitting on the end of my vac hose, so I have to get either an inside or outside coupler to hook the two together.
I used to work part time at Woodcraft. Time and time again a customer would bring in a connector/adapter/coupler because it wouldn't fit his new machine "but it fit my old one".
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That's one problem (why can't dust collection stuff use one of the other standards anyway) but DC stuff doesn't even fit DC stuff. Not even close.
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 01:10:50 +0000 (UTC)

they are trying to be gender neutral it is a fad now
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My gripe (besides the lack of standards) is that all the research I can find says that 4" pipe is too small for more than a single machine, but that is the most common size available. Collection for small home shop garage with 3-4 machines seems to need a system based on 5" pipe. Finding fittings that work properly with that are very difficult to find.
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On 3/1/2016 1:53 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:

While I've always heard that 5" or 6" pipe is better than 4" for dust collection.
Your qualifier (> 1 machine) raises a good point. How many of us run several dusty machines simultaneously? It would be great if I could get SWMBO out in the shop to surface plane some wood while I cut some sheet goods down to size, but that ain't gonna happen<g>
So... 4" seems like it will fit the bill just fine when combined with a good enough dust collector.
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On 03/01/2016 2:55 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote: ...

+1 as far as application...sizing is only limited by total _simultaneous_ capacity.
And, of course, if one steps up in duct size, have to have the commensurate air handler to keep adequate velocity and pressure drop as well.
I only addressed the actual concern of availability earlier...
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On 3/1/2016 2:55 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

99.99% of the time a single man shop is only going to use one machine at a time. 4" is plenty.
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On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 3:52:16 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:


AGree.
I have found that to be true even when I am working in an occupied house as well to manage the dust problem. I hook up the machine to my sanders, have a helper hold the hose for my sawzalll and oscillator tool cuts, and let t he machine run all day in the work area with enough hose to get the actual machine/bag outside or in the garage. Putting the machine outside of the l iving area I can use a 3 mil bag for good air flow. My machine gets too ho t after a couple of hours with the 1 mil bag on it, and since the collector will pull all the dust it needs to by sheer volume of air moved, 4" works fine.
Robert
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On Tue, 1 Mar 2016 14:55:26 -0600, Unquestionably Confused

Doesn't the length matter, also? A larger diameter will have less friction losses. Of course this all assumes a large enough DC to keep the air moving in the pipe.
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On 03/01/2016 7:26 PM, krw wrote: ...

It will, but unless the lengths are quite long which is unlikely in most home/small one-man shops, friction loss difference owing to pipe diameter is likely not a big effect.
_BUT_, for those same shops, the cfm to keep the same linear velocity has to go up by >150% which really begins to strain the size of most DC's folks are going to have at that size shop or want to invest the $$ for...
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I may have to go a bit further than I'd like to get to all the tools. I may just service a few of them with the DC, though, and use shop vacs elsewhere.

The port on my DC is 6" (with a 2x 4" adapter), so my thought was to just extend this as the main line(s) and split off that to 4". 6" stuff is a PITA to work with so if 4" works, I'm all for it.
Right now I just have 4" flex hose on the floor and connect the tool I'm using but I want to clean that up so it's not a pain to use the tools.
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On 3/1/2016 7:26 PM, krw wrote:

Length in a home shop may not be an issue. I use the clear wire reinforced flex hose, the robust kind, not the flimsy kind. Anyway it is any thing but smooth inside and is 30' long. It leaves the DC, goes straight up to about 7' high, over 8', and back down to the floor, and lots of loops bends and curves, to what ever I choose to hook it up to. No loss of suction at all. This is with an 1100 CFM DC with the pleated top filter.
I have 3, 10' lengths coupled together.
http://www.rockler.com/clear-flexible-dust-collection-hose-optional-sizes
I think the only time length is going to matter is if you have a bunch of leaking blast gates and or leaking fittings. I have none.
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On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 9:57:25 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:

Nor do I. And when I use mine it never has to make a vertical lift. It ro lls around on wheels and is about 12" off the ground when in use, just high enough to let the bag inflate and then droop a bit when getting close to f ull. I probably about about 25 - 30 ft on the collector, down from the len gth of the hose I purchased originally at 50'.
When it was still 50', I didn't have any problems with it in the slightest.
Robert
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On 03/01/2016 1:53 PM, Larry Kraus wrote:

Outside the box stores, yeah, but it's there...
<http://www.airhand.com/product-category/woodworking-hobby-shop-light-gauge-solution-for-spiral-pipe-fittings-and-hose/ <http://www.kencraftcompany.com/Dustindex.htm <http://www.oneida-air.com/category.asp?Id =>
There are others as well but as noted, prices become pretty dear pretty quickly when you get out of the smaller hobby stuff. But, one could go to simply a main 5" trunk line system which is where I'm headed eventually when (finally!!! after "only" 15 yr or so) get the barn setup operational. I've got the old blower from the silo unloader I'm repurposing as the fan and an old cyclone separator from the feed mill/grinder that helps some on components albeit with more time/effort on fitting and construction...
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