Cool bit for Phillips screws

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wrote:

a couple of hundred bucks difference, but that was it.

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On 8/15/2015 10:18 PM, krw wrote:

Yeah they started at about $1900. I thought the Mustang II was north of $4K. I was shopping and bought the Olds Starfire in 1975 and it was based on the Vega and just shy of $5K. It was a copy of the Chevy Monza and the Buick Skyhawk.

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wrote:

alternative Pinto was only a couple of hundred less.

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On 8/16/2015 11:38 AM, krw wrote:

over a Mustang. But you are very close on pricing.. I I found this.
Retail Prices: 2dr Hardtop, 60F: $3,134.00 3dr 2+2, 69F: $3,328.00 2dr, Ghia, 60H: $3,480.00 3dr Mach 1, 69R: $3,674.00
I can see why they were not wonderful cars. That was almost too good to be true pricing.
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On 8/14/2015 10:32 AM, Leon wrote:

Many of us leanred about torx when we went to replace a headlight. WTF is this thing?
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snipped-for-privacy@ix.netcom.com says...

The 10 buck Harbor Freight set (which Home Despot had a few weeks ago for the same price but seems to have discontinued) has clutch head and spline (not Bristol but should fit well enough) in addition to a bunch of other stuff.
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On 8/12/2015 4:24 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

This is true but first you have to be aware of the existence of these type items.
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On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 5:20:32 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:

ting ramps and safety rails. We have to secure 10 x 20 canopies to the blac ktop, etc. For years I have wanted to switch to Torx or Star or Robertson, anything but Phillips. Unfortunately, I can't do that.

orx or Star or Robertson bits, so we are basically forced to use Phillips h eads for everything if we want everyone to help with the set-up and tear-do wn.

unk-chunked it in with a bit-up Phillips bit. Gawd, how I hate that sound.

See my response to krw.
It's got nothing to do with the availability of bits at any given store, an d it's got nothing to do the fact that the boxes of certain "specialty" scr ews come with a bit to fit.
If you want proof, try this experiment...
Go to this website and find the nearest Soap Box Derby Rally race to your t own:
http://www.soapboxderby.org/aasbd-race-program/rally-race-program/rally-rac e-schedule.aspx
Stop over to enjoy the race. While you are there, walk around to any of 20 - 40 families racing that weekend and ask if you could borrow a Torx bit. T he more "sophistcated" families might have one in their tool box, but I'd b e very surprised if more than 10% of them did.
That means that if we set up with anything other than Phillips, there would be very few of us setting up and tearing down and that assumes that everyo ne that has Torx bits actually wants to help out. It's often hard enough to get people to help...the last thing we want to do is limit the pool by usi ng screws that only a few of us can drive.

No, the reason they have Phillips bits is because the only screws allowed t o be used on for the shell, brakes and airfoils of AASBD Soap Box Derby car s are Phillips screws. Pick a link, any link.
http://www.soapboxracing.com/browse.cfm/4,14.html http://www.soapboxracing.com/browse.cfm/4,12.html http://www.soapboxracing.com/browse.cfm/4,276.html
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snipped-for-privacy@eznet.net says...

Geez, tell 'em to bring a torx bit.
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On 8/12/2015 9:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Do you know the story of Johnny Appleseed? You can be come Johnny Torxbit. Buy a dozen and offer them to the help.

I see they are selling Phillips head, but I don't see a requirement. I'll take your word for it that a regulation exists. I suppose a different head could be a competitive advantage.
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says...

It takes some time to dig through the rules and figure out what's what. The key is: "A-7.02: Cars must be constructed and updated per the most current construction plans published by the International Soap Box Derby, Inc."
Looking at the "plans", I find "This plan booklet shall be followed when assembling your car. The hardware provided in the International Soap Box Derby, Inc. Stock Car kit must be used and assembled as shown in the latest rules, plans and specifications. No changes, modifications or additions, other than the inclusion or omission of specified optional parts, shall be made to the car."
In other words you don't design a car and build it anymore, you buy a box of parts and screw it together.
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On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 4:53:21 AM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:

bit. The more "sophistcated" families might have one in their tool box, but I'd be very surprised if more than 10% of them did.

everyone that has Torx bits actually wants to help out. It's often hard eno ugh to get people to help...the last thing we want to do is limit the pool by using screws that only a few of us can drive.

by cars are Phillips screws. Pick a link, any link.

Screw it together and then choose your own weight distribution, torque sett ings, spindle toe and camber, etc. You can choose your own wheel bearing lu brication, you need to eliminate cross bind in the floorboard, etc. There's a bit more to it than "just screw it together and send it down the hill".
Similar to Nascar, the cars are the same, but the fine tuning is key, unde rstanding the characteristics of each specific track is extremely important and then driving according to those characteristics probably accounts for 85-90% of the results. Since races can be won or lost by a thousandth of a second, every detail matters.
Granted, the design phase has been eliminated (except in the Ultimate Speed Division) but it still takes some work to build a successful car. Lucky fo r me, my son won the World Championship when modifications were still allow ed in the Masters Division. We built our own axle mounts, steering and brak e mechanisms, wrapped the entire car in fiberglass, etc. Unfortunately, as the skill level (and money and time commitment) to make these types of modi fications dwindled, the division got smaller and smaller and almost disappe ared. If you didn't make these modifications to the kit, you didn't win. Th at's basically when the AASBD had to make the tough decision to go with unm odified kits in all 3 divisions.
That part is a shame, because my son and I learned a heck of a lot of stuff in the 3 seasons it took us to win the World Championship. It's because of those hundreds of hours of work that my son is not afraid to pick up a too l and say "I can fix that".
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On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 7:27:23 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

x bit. The more "sophistcated" families might have one in their tool box, b ut I'd be very surprised if more than 10% of them did.

t everyone that has Torx bits actually wants to help out. It's often hard e nough to get people to help...the last thing we want to do is limit the poo l by using screws that only a few of us can drive.

erby cars are Phillips screws. Pick a link, any link.

lubrication, you need to eliminate cross bind in the floorboard, etc. There 's a bit more to it than "just screw it together and send it down the hill" .

nt and then driving according to those characteristics probably accounts fo r 85-90% of the results. Since races can be won or lost by a thousandth of a second, every detail matters.

for me, my son won the World Championship when modifications were still all owed in the Masters Division. We built our own axle mounts, steering and br ake mechanisms, wrapped the entire car in fiberglass, etc. Unfortunately, a s the skill level (and money and time commitment) to make these types of mo difications dwindled, the division got smaller and smaller and almost disap peared. If you didn't make these modifications to the kit, you didn't win. That's basically when the AASBD had to make the tough decision to go with u nmodified kits in all 3 divisions.

of those hundreds of hours of work that my son is not afraid to pick up a t ool and say "I can fix that".
Further to my comment on the elimination of the modifications, I should hav e pointed out the upside. Had the AASBD not eliminated the modifications to the kits, hundreds of kids would not have been able to continue racing, in cluding my daughter. While some of us would still have put in the time/ener gy/money that it takes to build a competitive Masters car, the fact remains that the division was in danger of disappearing. By eliminating the modifi cations, the Masters division began to grow again and kids can keep on raci ng once they go as far as they can in the Stock and Super Stock divisions.
Due to the changes in the Masters division - which definitely helped it sur vive - my daughter raced for 2 more years and earned a chance to compete in the World Championship in Akron, OH both years. Say what you will about th e changes, those 2 successful years were a lot of fun for my family.
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On 8/13/15 6:27 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

20 - 40 families racing that weekend and ask if you could borrow a Torx bit. The more "sophistcated" families might have one in their tool box, but I'd be very surprised if more than 10% of them did.

And all those great memories of working with Dad! I was born about 4 miles from the international Soap Box Derby track in Akron. Hey, you weren't the one who put the magnets in the nose of your car to get a budge from the start gate were you? :-p
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 11:59:34 AM UTC-4, -MIKE- wrote:

part was making the kid an active participant in the illegal activity. The magnet scandal cost the national Derby organization a number of corporate sponsors and caused a number of local city organizations to suspend racing for quite a few years.
People still cheat today, but the "standardization" of the kits and savvy r ace directors make it a lot tougher.
One favorite trick used to involve the wheels. Each heat of a Derby race co nsists of 2 phases. The overall time differential determines the winner of the heat. Drivers swap lanes after each phase, which takes the lane differe nces out of the equation. The wheels are also swapped between phases so tha t the wheels are taken out of the equation.
One trick was to bring a really bad wheel to the race and then set up your car to essentially "ignore" that wheel, almost riding on 3 wheels. Then whe n you swap all 4 wheels to the competitors car, they are impacted by the cr appy wheel since their car was set up to use all 4. The theory is that even though you are impacted slightly by not really using that 4th wheel when i t is on your car, your opponent is impacted even more because of the drag i ntroduced by the bad wheel.
Race directors have come up with various wheel swap configurations that pre vent the cheaters from knowing which spindle they should "mal-adjust" to co mpensate for a bad wheel, so that trick has been all but eliminated.
There are other cheating methods, but it's getting much better. Just like e very other sport or competition, there will always be cheaters. When we rac ed, we pushed the rules to the very limit, but we never cheated. We worked with a team of 3 other families and we all have rules that are nicknamed af ter us because we pushed the existing rules just far enough that the inspec tors had to allow what we did the first time they saw it. The things we tri ed weren't illegal, we just interpreted the rules differently based on the way they were worded. The next racing season we'd find that a rule was adde d or modified to eliminate the "grey area" that we often played in. In some cases what we did became part of the plans, in other cases it was specific ally dis-allowed. Those were some fun times.
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That is the challenge of any racing series, whether it's Soap Box Derby or Formula One - how to you come up with rules that allow some measure of creativity, but still preserve fairness and punish those who take it too far (i.e. cheat).
It is a shame that the Derby organizers felt the only way they could handle it was to take the creativity out of it. As you say, the skills to make mechanical innovations are becoming rarer, most of the creativity in today's youth is in software.
John
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On 08/11/2015 1:50 PM, John McCoy wrote:

"Classical", maybe; attractive--not. Phillips is a _much_ neater-looking visual impression, with Torx not terribly far behind but much more of a electronics or mechanical look than woodworking flavor...
I've a bunch of ca. 1900 hardware from coat hooks to door hinges/locks Dad took off the house when they redid it. I've yet to find most of the stash of screws but they were for the most part an oval head blackened or for the hinges copper-plated that I've not been able to duplicate or find any longer. They just "look right" for the hardware; anything current looks horribly out of place...
--


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Torque Drive. The better drive. I was not thrilled with the first part of the video that showed the screw driver being held sideways. Either way though, phillips are tough screws to use, although I use them for concrete forms, and throw away. Yes, his bit does look like it really works. Different head than what he had shown in the beginning with the sleeve. john
"Gramps' shop" wrote in message
I could have used this so many times before I switched to square bits.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/762395654/new-phillips-screwdriver-that-turns-new-and-damage?ref tegory_popular
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On 8/11/2015 7:55 AM, jloomis wrote:

John, wasn't the original, sleeved bit a standard Phillips head like we all swear at?<g>
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yeah, what a piece of work that is.... john
"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message
On 8/11/2015 7:55 AM, jloomis wrote:

John, wasn't the original, sleeved bit a standard Phillips head like we all swear at?<g>
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