Continuing saga of WOODCRAFT/JORGENSEN

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Went to the WOODWORKS 2003 show in Nashville Saturday .. .. .. spoke with a lady from WOODCRAFT who offered me a catalog and a coupon good during their Grand Opening .. .. .. I half jokingly declined, saying I was still mad at WOODCRAFT for the clamp fiasco. She said if many more folks hold out because of that, their Grand Opening might well be a bankruptcy sale. Seems there were a lot of folks showing up for the sale and leaving empty handed. She said each store was allotted 40 clamps in each of 3 sizes or 120 total. There are 70+ stores in the country. That comes to 8400 clamps out in the field. If WOODCRAFT bought 15,000 clamps total, that left 6,600 clamps in stock for the midnight madness online sale. Assuming at least SOME were set aside for employees and "special;" friends, there were probably less than 6,000 available for sale online. At 12/customer, that left enough for 500 orders, or approximately 10 per state. I still think they under ordered by a tremendous margin.
--

<<<__ Bob __>>>



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I just don't get the anger at Woodcraft over this. I didn't get any clamps out of the deal and I'm not angry at them at all though I sure would have liked to have grabbed a few. Where do people get the idea that Woodcraft has some obligation to have enough of a sale item in stock to supply every woodworker in America? If your local Mercedes dealer decides to mark down their cars to a level the average Joe is willing to pay and they sell out before you get there are you going to get mad at them and beat them up the way Woodcraft has been over this? 15,000 clamps @ 12 per person means 1250 people could have gotten a great deal on the clamps. We all know that many people weren't able to get in on the deal because some were buying multiple times but there are still a bunch of happy wood butchers out there now. Woodcraft didn't turn this into a "fiasco", woodworkers did. BTW, this is not directed at you in particular Bob.
-Chris
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Christopher asks:

I think you missed the point of those who are angry. They had CONFIRMED orders, which were then turned back, refused, etc.
Charlie Self "Ain't no man can avoid being born average, but there ain't no man got to be common." Satchel Paige
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My understanding, as well as my own experience with the Woodcraft online sale, was that the order was never "confirmed" but said "order pending confirmation" or something like that. I woke up the next day with an email that said part of my order was sold out due to the clamps already being out of stock by the time I put those clamps in my "cart". I'm not mad at Woodcraft at all...it was clear enough to me (based on the message as well as the obvious slowness of the whole system) that it was possible my items wouldn't be available to me.
PJ
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My printed out copy clearly says "Confirmed" not pending or the like.
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snipped-for-privacy@attglobal.net says...

Yours wasn't the only one.
Abe
--
Replace ONE with the numeral for return email.

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Perhaps they confirmed "receipt" of the order, but not necessarily that it would be shipped or that your CC has been approved. Instead of speculating, if concerned, contact Woodcraft for an explanation. They would know more that we do on the subject. Ed
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Maybe the web page programmers botched it and issue a confirmation by mistake. After all, how much software is actually reliable?
Getting one's shorts in a knot over this issue seems to me a waste of energy. I've missed lots of opportunities - I get over it.
Mike
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snipped-for-privacy@rogers.notthis.com says...

Actually, I'm fairly certain that what they did was to set up their system to remove things from inventory when the purchase was completed, and not when the customer placed it in their cart. It's all water under the bridge in any case. I have a local Rockler's that is more than happy to take my money.
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If they did that and the customer never completes the transaction, then the item stays out of inventory even though not sold. They'd have to design a timeout mechanism to put it back. Too long and they miss inventory - too short and the customer finds his order suddenly disappeared when he went to the bathroom. The web is stateless and that makes foolproof transaction processing difficult at best.
Mike
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I don't buy that. I cannot think of a single modern relational database that does not have transactional processing built in ... this should not be a problem/excuse, even in a stateless environment like the web.
It's done all the time. If what you say was the case, there would be no Internet banking over the web.
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Sorry, Mike ... I didn't mean that to sound so snippy. Had to work late and still on the first cup of coffee. Mea culpa.
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The relational database is hooked to the web server, not the user. How does the relational database know what the user is doing if the transaction takes several _independent_ steps? Completion/rollback of a transaction has to be triggered from something - what is that?
Mike
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The mechanism varies. It could be as simple as a cookie, or a timeout, or as complicated as a client side script and buffers. "Commit trans" is never sent to the database without a specific, verifiable trigger mechanism ... as I stated earlier, Internet banking would not be possible unless there was a mechanism to do this in a stateless environment.
Hell, commerce on the Internet would be impossible if there was no mechanisms for maintaining state on a web transaction.
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I did call Woodcraft. The morning after the sale as they sent an email saying one of the line items was cancelled (I was fortunate to have gotten two line items delivered unlike others who had their whole order cancelled). I don't see it being a CC issue as they shipped a partial order. A cc issue would have cancelled the whole order. Their explanation went something like this: We're sorry but our systems couldn't keep up with demand. Consequently, orders were placed and confirmed but the inventory had already been sold. My gripe with Woodcraft at this point has to do with them not being properly prepared to handle such a sale and their unwillingness to do the right thing after the fact. They'd do much better to simply eat the cost of filling those "confirmed" orders and retain their customer base.
I work for Intel and learned a lot from how they handled their Floating Point issue on the Pentium several years ago. That screw up cost the company $500M and lost a large number of customers. Cheers, cc
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They have probably never experienced at rush on orders like this. Being prepared, in hindsight, may have been to install $500,000 is servers for the one time sale.
They probably should do something for the people with confirmed orders. It would go a long way to improving good will. As for the ones that just got there too late, tough, You knew it was limited supplies so you have no complaint. Ed
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I'm fairly certain mine said confirmed, I threw out my printout this weekend, and don't have it to check.
says...

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That may be true in some cases but certainly not all. The OP for this thread didn't mention anything about his order being confirmed by mistake. He only complained that Woodcraft didn't stock up on enough clamps so that everyone wanting some could get them.
-Chris
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They should have planned the sale date better. If they checked my buying history, most large purchases are the weekend after payday. All they had to do was check their sales database, do an analysis, and schedule the sale for this weekend coming up.
Due to their short sightedness, I'm going to be clamp impaired for months to come. I take no responsibility for this as they could have done better. Ed
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wrote in message

Ed,
EXACTLY. In fact, if I were you I wouldn't stop whining about them until they send me a dozen clamps postage free. You might try using rubber bands until they get around to this. I can't belive they are so insensitive.
-Jack
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