Cherry Finish-How long to darken?

[Toller]

A friend has asked me to build him a desk for his daughtor's room that will exactly match a chest of drawers. The woodworking is real simple, but he needs to know that the wood will be the same color.

The chest is fairly dark cherry. He says it is 5 years old and the color has been stable for that time. I did a google search on staining cherry and the most relavent thread is dated today! People have said that cherry darkens all by itself, and should not be stained (or dyed).

Well, he is going to be pissed if it is a significantly different color. How long does it take for cherry to make this magical transformation? How reliable is it? Does cherry plywood (the sides have no exposed edges, so they might as well be plywood) also darken the same way? Is it plain old light that darkens it, or UV from sunlight?

If it was for myself I would just build it and enjoy the contrast if it didn't darken right, but he will not see it that way.

[todd]

I'd say that if he's going to be pissed because cherry has the properties that it has, that maybe he should find someone else to do it. That's what I'd tell him if it was me. Other than that, maybe it could be toned the right color with a top coat that contains a UV-inhibitor.

todd

[ClemsonDave]

Put it in the sunlight for a few hours at a time until it darkens to your liking. Or, attach a photo of the other piece and the group may be able to better tell you what's up.

Dave

[Al Martin]

I know what will happen if I answer this.....BUT...

If you want to match store bought cherry furniture...or antiques....I use Old Masters Cherry Wiping Stain item # 10504.....sand the cherry through 220 removing any burn marks, or scrape the piece. Use a natural bristle brush and put a medium coat on.....I would take a piece of scrap and mask off 6" sections, apply a medium coat to the entire piece, wait 5 minutes wipe one section off....wait another 5 minutes and wipe the next off.....leave one section without wiping so you will get a guage as to how dark you need to go to match the other furniture.

After it is completely dry, up to several days, spary with several coats of thinned shellac, or if you do not have a sprayer, a good quality brush, keep a wet edge and do not go over any strokes. Wait until it is dry, usually several hours, and hand buff with #0000 steel wool......tack it off and apply at least one more coat. Wax when finished.

Sorry guys, but unless you want to wait about 100 years with the piece sitting in a window gathering sun, this way works for me.

[Larry C in Auburn, WA]

You need better friends. A friend of yours is going to get pissed at you because the desk you made him isn't the right color? Sounds more like a client than a friend and you should never mix business and pleasure. Personally, I'd tell him that it might not match, ask him if he wants you to make it anyway, then have a couple of beers and talk about women.

[Rumpty]

When my customers ask "Can you match..." my answer is NO! I have a no stain match policy and have had it for years. I don't lose much business because of this policy. The little bit that I lose, those customers are going to be more trouble than they are worth.

[Toller]

He's simply fussy, and wouldn't have any use for it if it doesn't match. Better to be upfront about it then to have him be unhappy with it. He is a surgeon, and I guess it is good that he is a perfectionist.

[daryl1138]

With a Lye treatment it takes about 10 seconds. Yea, I know that's what I thought. Disolve the lye in water and paint on. I read elsewhere it is reacting with the tanin (sp?) in the wood in the same way years of UV would. Only here it happens before your eyes. The grain will raise slightly which you simply sand back to smooth. I did not cut a peice but the treatment seems to go quite deep. I was kind of leary about doing this with the peice of furniture I just finished so I tried it on a couple of scraps. The amount of lye determines the darkeness (I used about 1 tsp to 2 cups of water and it matches a 2 year old footstool we have perfectly) so experiment. It will look blotchy until it has had a day or so to dry. I think it also wise to wait until this happens to sand the peice.

Try it on the bottom of something or on a scrap. Worst case you're out $2.59 in Red Devil Lye Drain Cleaner. If you do this WEAR GLOVES AND TAKE ANY PRECAUTIONS NOTED ON THE PACKAGE. I can't believe people used to wash with this stuff.

Daryl

[Larry Bud]

I don't think it's the UV, because I've had a cherry cabinet that I made darken in the past year. And from what I understand, glass blocks all UV (that's why you don't get a sunburn from sitting in your house on a sunny day). So it's some other wavelength that does it to the cherry.

I don't know what you should tell him, as I don't know your relationship. But I would explain that the best pieces darken naturally over time, and if you stain it, the value won't be as great.

[JGS]

I think you are missing the point a little bit. As an exact match is in the eye of the beholder, one of the best pieces of advice I every received in this group was to tell my clients (fussy or not) that I can give them a 100% guarantee that the colour of the new piece will not match that of an existing piece. This creates a reasonable expectation on the part of the client and saves you from spending long hours trying to achieve the impossible. Cheers, JG

ps- While I will accept commissi> > You need better friends. A friend of yours is going to get pissed at you

[Edwin Pawlowski]

My step father did a lot of work for doctors. He put enough in the estimate to cover all the additional changes he anticipated as normal for them. Ed [e-mail]

[George]

Absolutely. You want arrogance in your surgeon or your pilot.

See if you can find air-dried stock. Kiln-drying cherry bleaches it, which helps hide the sapwood from you, but doesn't ever, in my opinion match the air-dry kind. Where it's from seems to make a bit of a difference as well. Pennsylvania stuff seems lighter than our midwest variety.

What you use for finish also makes a difference. I like running hot Linseed/thinner in until refusal two or three times to cut down on the light scatter from the surface before finishing with oil-based finishes.

[John]

The best finish I have found for Cherry is good ole tungue oil. A good rule of thumb for using tongue oil is to apply it once every day for a week, once a week for a month and once a month for a year, then every year after that.

Peppers

[Toller]

I guess the two big questions are- So its not blotchy? It doesn't darken with time and overshoot the desired color?

No, there is a third question - How do I buy it? A google didn't turn anything up.

[Lawrence A. Ramsey]

How many tongues does it take to make tongue oil???

I use Tung oil which is avalable from Lee Valley and many others. Look for TUNG oil on Google.

[hex]

In addition to all the wisdom floated your way... there is one more thing: the color will vary from tree to tree or atleast grove to grove. My wife's cherry exterior cedar-lined chest is 4 years older than the her rocking chair. The chair is significantly darker than the chest. The chair is 5, the chest is 9. Both with the same finish (Watco Natchural). Both live in about the same light level -- the chest probably sees MORE light. The chair keeps getting darker and has reached a magnificent deep red. The chest color is pretty stable. When it was fresh cut the chair was distinctly red. The chest was distinctly pink. This is why one attempts to buy by the flitch when building a large project.

Explain to your friend that trees have genetic variability just like his patients. Additionally, trees and people are also products of their environments. Trees only have access to the minerals in the soil.

The only way to guarantee a color match is to paint.

Good luck,

hex

-30-

[Toller]

I can't find any other referrence on the internet to this process, but what the hell... I will give it a try. Thanks

[Toller]

I couldn't find any lye, so I bought a bottle of drain cleaner made of sodium and potassium hydroxide. It took about 2 hours to get it as dark as the piece I am supposed to match. Sanding took some of the color off, but also restored a little grain pattern to the otherwise nearly blank piece.

I can't see doing to an entire desk, and God only knows what it will do to cherry plywood; but it was a fun experiment.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Must be the dilution. I dipped a piece in a 50% solution of sodium hydroxide. Darkened too much in the time it took me to put it in and take it out. I've not tried making it more dilute yet. Ed [e-mail]

[Doug Miller]

I've had very good results using two teaspoons of Red Devil lye in a pint of water. Fifty percent seems like a pretty strong solution to me.

-- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?