cabinet shelves options

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I wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote:
I'd much rather have one of these.... just the basic system is all you'd need. http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?pB200&cat=1,180,42311 ------------------------------- Works for a commercial shop; however; at an almost 5:1 price premium, Henry Home owner doing a one shot kitchen job might find the price premium a bit much.
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I agree, Lew. And if I am going to make an adjustable shelf for inside a cabinet, I don't drill 100 holes from top to bottom. I estimate where I think the shelves will be, and then put about 6" worth of holes in the sides. The sight of those empty holes has always bugged me for some reason. When I have installed IKEA purchased cabinets, I was able to buy hole covers (like you buy as screw caps, but with a 1/4" body) and that was a great thing. Can't find them now....
But back on topic, a simple jig is easy to make and use in these applications. It doesn't take long and even if it is for a one time application, I would save the dough.
When I am retrofitting a kitchen or building a "one off" cabinet as a bookcase, pantry, electronics cabinet, or anything else that might need to hold a lot of weight but needs to be adjustable to the whims of the owner, I still like these:
http://www.cabinetparts.com/g/steel-pilasters-clips-knape-and-vogt
The come in a few different colors from different manufacturers, and even the small shelf clips from these systems (3/4" X 1/2") can match or compliment your cabinet finish. My clients have happily loaded everything from law books and bowling trophies to warehouse club sized canned goods on them for years. Never a failure.
I am surprised, though. While clicking through a couple of pages on those standards, I am surprised they no longer offer "oiled bronze". Every office finish out I did for years seemed like the clients wanted a light walnut stain on birch plywood ( nasty.... ) and those bronze colored standards in them with matching clips.
I like the fact they were enormously fast and easy to install, too. When out on the job, I cut the slot/inlet groove with a router and a straight edge. In the shop, two passes a side with a dado on the table saw and finished.. Like I said, they are really fast, and if you cut your inlet groove so that the metal sits on top of the bookcase/cabinet floor, they line up perfectly. with no measuring at all.
Robert
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Yessir: http://picasaweb.google.com/contrarian32/ShelfClips#5531624902615202098
Max
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 23:24:30 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

I'm ashamed at Robin for the Festering price of that thing, when a piece of pegboard works just fine. :/
Rockler's $35 JigIt, Woodcraft's $27 Shelf Pin Jig,
Another option is to make your own:
http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive99/4_23holejig.html
http://www.woodworkinghowto.com/wood/adjustable-shelf.htm
The vix bit is a good idea; it saves the jig.
-- An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. -- Sir Winston Churchill
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wrote:

A handsaw will do everything a Makita track saw will do too.... as a matter of speaking. Not as well, mind you, but it will. So it is with any home-made drilling jigs. Seldom do they work out well and 120 bucks spread out over a whole kitchen is a drop in the bucket. The device is very well made, sturdy and accurate and there is no way *I* could make one for less money. *I* think it is a bargain. Set it back 37 mm from the front of the cabinet and you get to accurately/quickly mount your hinges too. Some jigs aren't worth the money. This one is.....imho. It helps a lot in keeping the drill bit 90° to the gable as well. The sturdiness of the jigs also comes into play when drilling into panels with a course grain. Even a vix bit will wander under those conditions. I drilled one serious amount of shelf holes in my day, from several wooden-, plastic-, and metal home made jigs, to a proper jig to a Delta gang drill to a CNC.... You don't need to do a lot of them to get your $120 back in accuracy and time. And pilaster strips, Robert? Really? Maybe in a heavy-weight commercial library...but man, I dislike those things immensely.
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 08:11:55 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

;)
You're retired now, so you can't count your time. You could build it for less.

So when a person builds his own, he can use a bushing, too. (Generic "he", Carla.)

Of course it's coarse.

Not by much, though.

Perhaps in a production setting, but not for a couple cabs. Besides, jigs are -fun- to build and use.

Half my ancient kitchen cabinetry is made with adjustable pinned shelves, the other half with pilaster strips. I prefer the pins. They're considerably less obtrusive.
-- An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. -- Sir Winston Churchill
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wrote:

Guelph, ON, Saturday and ran into a couple of my sign material suppliers. One reminded me that my sheets of Extira would show up this Wed, the other that the Alu-Cor sheets for Asantι outdoor signs would be here tomorrow.... retired, yup.. oh, and the downtown reno is really picking up steam. Roofers and painters starting tomorrow, need me some permits, then I get to decide if I want to build 28 diner tables, square and rectangular slabs on iron pedestal legs.... done that before. LOT of spray contact cement or vacuum forming 1/4" Corian, which means I need to go out of town to an oven I can use... kid backed into a truck with her Mazda. need some quotes for body work.... wifey would like a new front door with a screen door that has those super cool roll-up hidaway screens.. *I* didn't want a screen door on the front, but DOG has more to say than I....retired...yup....

C-Less The Librarian strikes again! <G>

though.
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:30:13 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy

Yeah, you sold the business and retired. Now everyone you know (and many you don't yet know) has projects for you. Y'know, since you have all the time in the world to do 'em. Retirement AIN'T for sissies.

My inner English Teacher made me do it.

Yeah, they work great there.
-- An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. -- Sir Winston Churchill
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It may be a question of taste. I like them inletted into the wood, not surface mounted. I like them painted the color of the cabinet. And since most of the adjustable cabinets are made to be used as such, the always seem to be full. I really don't notice the strips when the cabinets are loaded up.
On the other hand... I cannot stand those little shelf nubs that wallow out the holes on shelving and cause them to get loose or mushroom around the hole itself. Some don't get past a few adjustments. I blame this mainly on the side material and impatient people yanking too hard to move them.
I only use the pilasters that are inlet into the sides that use the little clips. I don't like the ones that you see on the back at all, and I hate those awful looking 6", 8", and 12" arms that used to be used. Those were ugly when they were the rage in the 80s.
Robert
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I made my own: http://picasaweb.google.com/contrarian32/ShelfJig#5531623068470477490
Max
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Sweet.
For a one-shot job, pegboard is cheap and makes a good enough template. Run masking tape over the holes you don't want to drill, wrap another piece around the bit for a depth stop.
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If you can get deep enough peg board, you may be able to just glue it in place and leave it. I wouldn't do it for a book case, but maybe a couple foot wide DVD rack.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

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On Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:20:44 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

Yeah, adjustable shelves are a godsend.

...with only an inch or three of sag over time.
-- An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. -- Sir Winston Churchill
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For fixed shelves in a rigid cabinet, #20 biscuits are going to be at *least* as strong as 3/16" shelf pins in 3/8" deep holes.
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Hi Rob,

I'm probably going to take heat for this, but I've built dozens of cabinets for our house, office, garage, and more using simple butt joints, glue, and finish nails. Once you attach the back and the face frame, the case is very sturdy. We've loaded up many of our cabinets with hundreds of pounds of stuff with zero problems.
I usually use 1/4" plywood for the back, inset in a rabbet around the back edge of the case, glued and nailed in place.
I assemble the face frame with pocket screws, then glue and nail the frame to the case.
If you're a purist, you could omit the nails and hold everything together with clamps till the glue dries. But, it's hard to beat the speed and convenience of an air nailer, even if you do need to fill the holes later.
As for the internal shelves, I drill 1/4" holes spaced an inch or two apart (I have a jig from rockler), then use shelf pins to hold the shelves (I prefer the L-shaped clips rather than the basic posts). This lets you adjust the shelves up or down as needed to accomodate tall cereal boxes, pitchers, or whatever.
If you need more adjustability, you could inset metal shelf standards in rabbets along the insides of the cabinet. I've done this for bookshelves where the finer adjustment is handy, but it's a lot more work and cost than I needed for cabinets.
I like to make my bottom shelf flush with the top of the bottom rail of the face frame. This prevents the annoying lip I have seen on some commercial cabinets, and it allows space under the cabinet to attach under-cabinet lights.
I do add a mounting strip along the back bottom of the cabinet, as well as a mounting strip along the top of the cabinet (inside). This gives you a little more support for the cabinet as opposed to just screwing through the 1/4" plywood backing. It you don't want the mounting strip inside the cabinet, you could use 1/2" plywood for the cabinet back instead. Either works fine, but it will cost more to use 1/2" plywood for the backs.
Remember to use long 3" screws into the studs when mounting your cabinets!
Good luck,
Anthony
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[snipped for brevity]

the wall where you're hanging your cabinets. <G>
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Uh, yep, you want to be sure you're not screwing into something you shouldn't behind the wall (water pipes, electrical wires, ducts, pocket doors). Ideally, there should be metal protection plates to prevent screwing into the wires and pipes, but that may not always be the case. So, do a little research before driving screws "willy-nilly" into the wall. :)
My point was not to use 3/4" screws into drywall or something. The strongest cabinets in the world won't be worth a darn if they pull off the wall when you load them up.
I use 3" deck screws at every stud behind the cabinet, both at the top and bottom of the cabinet.
Anthony
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*snip*

We had that happen with a bathroom cabinet not long ago. The screw, if it hit the stud at all, was only secured to drywall. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.
Proper length screws in the right place solve all kinds of problems.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.

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On 10/25/2010 6:52 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

For those new to the game of attaching cabinets to stud walls:
If you're going to attach a cabinet to a wall with screws, even if you're eating your own dog food and not getting paid, but really want to do it worry free:
Use a box knife to cut out the existing drywall in the obvious locations, toenail/screw in 2x4/6 blocking between the studs, put the drywall cutout's back (a quickie 'tape n' float' job is all that is necessary), then attach cabinet(s) to blocking with the screws where you want them to be, not where the studs happen to fall.
Adds maybe thirty minutes to the job, and you can sleep for years without having to once worry that a cabinet, with your good name on it, is falling off the wall.
Or:
If I can't do it that way, and with small cabinets, like in a bathroom vanity cabinet, it's French Cleat time ... similar to this (but not in a bathroom):
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/DeskCab.jpg
That cabinet took ten minutes to hang from start to finish, been there almost ten years, and it will be there until I pop off the crown, lift it off it's mating cleats, remove the few screws holding those to the studs, and add a wee bit of touchup paint ... and you'll never know it was there.
All as simple as beveling the bottom of the "tack strips" on the back of your cabinets on the table saw, then screwing the cut off of that process to the wall studs as the mating cleats, top and bottom.
And, if you cut the wall piece a few inches shorter than the cabinet is wide, you can easily center the cabinet perfectly between between walls/other cabinets.
Elegance in cabinet hanging personified ... FWIW
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
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Swingman wrote:

If you had not suggested it, I might have worried about the end grain holding the screws in your blocking boards. Thanks for the lesson. Based on my experience, I'd be lucky to have the cabinets up in 2 1/2 hours, rather than 30 minutes, but that includes cleanup. : )
Bill

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