Audel Carpenters and Builders library

[Topaz]

This is an appeal to rec.ww's. Does anyone have a copy of the Audel publication Carpenters and Builders Library Book #1, containing information on Framing Squares? It must be a about a 1923 print, or reprint thereof.

There is an ongoing discussion on some roof framing forums about how to use the Octagon table. Not the table on a modern square, used to turn a square-sided post into an eight-sided one. The Eagle square made in those days had a set of scales to set out the angles of rafters for an octagon roof; one of those scales appears to be "wrong"

- but it can't be !

It would be great if someone has a copy and is prepared to post how the hip side cut (octagon) scale should be interpreted.

Topaz

[Andy Dingley]

Try the wikipedia article on steel squares, and contacting the author of the majority of that article. They're clearly someone who knows their squares and is possibly going to have a copy of such a book.

Nearest I can do from my shelves is Audel's, "New Catechism of the Steam Engine", which isn't quite the same thing 8-)

[J. Clarke]

It's book 3 that has the information on framing squares, in stock at Amazon for 25 bucks (order fast if you want one--they say there's only one left in stock).

also have several copies of the 1923 edition of the full set for prices ranging from 25 bucks on up depending on condition. you go to Amazon and search on "steel square" you'll find several other books covering that territory as well. Horner's "Essential Guide to the Steel Square" for 14 bucks covers it in excruciating detail in 200 pages vs 30 for the Audels book.

[DLB]

Try:

[HeyBub]

Wow! Really good article:

[sweet sawdust]

Yes it is on page 264 book 1 of the 4th edtion copy right 1976 . Where do you want it posted

>

[Marty]

Well I'll be darned..... Had to run down to the workshop and drag out the framing square. Never took a real close look at this thing but was thrown for a loop. I recall a few years ago I was building an octagon table and spent some time laying out the cuts.... and there is was on the framing square all the time! sheesh

Marty

DLB wrote:

[Topaz]

Thanks for your replies everyone. Many reactions refer to the current Octagon scales - showing how to "plane" a 4-side to an 8-side (eg the wiki). My OP said that was not what I wanted: what I want is the Eagle square from about 1900 to 1923 (when Eagle were swallowed by Stanley) which had a different set of scales as my OP described.

Sweet Sawdust, before we start posting, please can you be really sure that the copy you have describes the old Octagon scales ?

(I have put a scan of the scales on Flickr but I dont know how to post a link to the single image here. Help anyone?)

Greet> > This is an appeal to rec.ww's.

bericht niet weergeven -

[dpb]

Topaz wrote: ...

...

Copy the url while displaying it and pasting (bracketed in "" so it won't be wrapped, maybe??? Don't know if there's something unusual about Flickr that prevents that/makes it incorrect link...

--

[J. Clarke]

You're lucky you got one with the scales. They don't all have them anymore.

[sweet sawdust]

I am not sure if this is it but here is part of it:

Octagon table or eight-square scale

This tale on the square is usually located along the middle of the tongue face and is used for laying off lines to cut an eight- square or octagon-shaped piece of timber form a square timber. In Fig. 2o, let abcd represent the end section, or but, of a square of 6" x 6" timber. Through the center the lines ab and cd parallel with the sides and at right angles to each other. With dividers take as many squares (6) from the scale as there are inches in width of the piece of timber, and lay off this square on either side of the point a, such as Aa and Ah; lay off in the same way the same spaces from point b, as Bd and Be; also lay off Cb, Cc, Df,and Dg. Then draw the lines ab, cd, ef, and gh. Cut off the edges to lines ab, cd, ef, and gh, thus obtaining the octagon or 8-sided piece

It makes perfect since with the pictures in the book, but sounds wierd here.

Sweet Sawdust, before we start posting, please can you be really sure that the copy you have describes the old Octagon scales ?

(I have put a scan of the scales on Flickr but I dont know how to post a link to the single image here. Help anyone?)

Greet> > This is an appeal to rec.ww's.

[Tom Watson]

My Audel's says the following:

"Table of Octagon Rafters

The complete framing square is provided with a table for cutting octagon rafters, as shown in Fig. 34. In this table, the first line of figures from the top gives the length of the octagon hip rafters per foot of run. The second line of figures gives the length of the jack rafters spaced 1 foot from the octagon hip. The third line of figures gives the reference to the graduated edge that will give the side cut for octagon hip rafters. The fourth line of figures gives the reference to the graduated edge that will give the side cuts for jack rafters."

Is this what you are looking for?

Regards,

Tom Watson

[Scott Lurndal]

Second page of the book (1928 reprint, gilt edges, embossed leather bound):

The lines radiating from division 12 on the tongue of the square to various points on the blade as seen in Figure M, ar inclinations corresponding to various roof pitches for common rafters.

For octagon, or hip rafters, use mark 13 or 17 respectively.

The pitch (ratio of blade to tongue) is identical for 12, 13 or 17 (i.e. 12/24, 13/24, 17/24 are all pitch of 1, 12/18, 13/18, 17/18 are all pitch of 3/4 etc.)

scott

[Tom Watson]

Tom Watson

[Topaz]

Sweet Sawdust, thanks for the effort you took, but it is not the octagon scale I want.

Tom Watson, that looks more promising. In Fig 34, are there the phrases "use XXX" and "use VVV" at the end of the third and fourth lines of the table? If so, any explanation about XXX and VVV in the text ? Or what they mean by "graduated edge" ? Thanks in advance.

Scott, You also appear to have the real thing, although what you describe sounds like a protractor enscribed on the square. In the "original", the description I am looking for appears on pages (22,23) but especially 24 and 25, with figure on 26. How is it in your copy ? Greetings, Topaz