I have fitted out all wiring points in a complete new build using dry lining boxes, (245 of them in total) now coming to 2nd fix and a question arises - how do I deal with the earths?
For all the socket outlets no problem as the sockets have earth connection screws, as do grid switches etc.
However for standard switch plates these have no earth connection screw .... Now there are a couple of things I could do ..
i) simply ignore the earths and cut them off, face plates are insulated as are boxes so no need to earth.
ii) where there is only one earth wire treat as for i) . where more than one earth wire, individually sleeves in grn/yellow, twist the ends together and connect them all in a single insulated choccy block .. Still has no effect on insulated face plate and box, but at least ensures all earths are linked.
iii) It is possible to order clip in earth terminals to fit in dry lining box, but wholesalers don't seem to stock them . but what good does it do when faceplate & box are insulated.
The boxes are plastic and they act as an insulator so all the earth conductors go directly to the face plate earth terminals.
You would sleeve the earth connecting centre as though you were going to connect it then place it in a screw terminal strip and leave it tucked inside the box. Don't cut it away as you may need it later on if you fit something else in place of the old switch.
No. Don't do that.
No. Don't do this either.
No. You can buy earth terminals which are normally meant for metal conduit boxes, but you'll need to drill each dry lining box and fit the terminal through and use a locking nut on the threaded tail. Lot of hassle for an already insulated box.
Always make off all the earth conductors in your lighting distribution junctions boxes. The earth conductors helps to reduce interference from sparking / arcing of electrical switch gear, even if it is only connected at one and allowed to float through leakage.
You may have misunderstood (easy when I am describing things) this is what I do for AC outlets .. but for lighting switchplates there are no faceplate earth points ...
why ? not arguing, just keen to understand why, having them connected and in a single connetcor mimicks what would happen if a earth terminal were retro fitted ... and I thought this safer than leaving wires loose in back of box ... can't possibly short this way ? why do you say not to do this ?
The other thing is that it is possible, although not common practice, that you could have an application where the unswitched power goes to the plate switch and then the switched power continues on to the light fitting. This might happen for a light that is in some odd position a long way from the lighting circuit, whereas the switch is relatively close.
In that scenario, you need an earth at the light fitting so you would then need continuity of the earth through the switch.
I read all the theories and spoutings of a lot of the postings regarding relectrical work on these newsgroups and to be honest I cannot believe some of the garbage quoted.
I am an Electrical Engineer but do not bother trying to help with many of the electrical questions raised here because of the rubbish that can get posted confusing the crap out of the original posters.(Why should anyone listen to me when there are all these "experts" on here with their elegant theories and ideas?).
There are one or two poster on here who regularly give what I would regard as valid, correct answers to these electrical questions but the majority are just well meaning, but dangerous, amateurs.
In my professional opinion if you have an electrical problem or question DO NOT ask it on here, the ability to post a newsgroup reply does not in any way endorse a person's ability or knowledge regarding electrical work or theory.
If you have an electrical problem please for your sake and the sake of anyone using the buildings or equipment you are asking about, please call in an electrician.
It is very very easy to wire something to make it work - it is far harder to make it work in a manner that is safe and does not pose a risk to life or property.
No doubt all the barrack room sparks will now start telling me how many houses and sockets they have wired with no problems, i do not have a problem with that if you know what you are doing but if you have to ask on here in the first palce you do not have enough knowledge to take on the job so please call in someone who is qualified and knows what they are doing.
Because if you do have the expertise that you claim, you would be able to justify any contribution that you make by reference to BS7671 and well-known references to it.
You've demonstrated that you can write clearly as well, so the two things taken together would imply your being able to post quite eloquently and effectively on the subject.
This is a sweeping statement. Where a question being asked is fairly complex and not well covered by the Wiring Regulations or by one of the commentary books, somebody with good knowledge of them typically does step in and give a justified response and is seldom challenged on it.
For relatively simple things, there is either a well trodden path or the question is about looking for a technique to use when it is not otherwise covered.
For many aspects of electrical installation work there is not a prescribed "right way" or "wrong way" but there can be several quite valid choices. There may be a common way that an electrician may have learned from others along the way but that does not make alternatives incorrect or incompliant with the Regulations. The acid test is whether it complies with the standard, is safe and effective.
Neither, unfortunately does calling in a professional (how ever that might be defined), or indeed having an inspection done.
Let me give you a simple example.
Some years ago, I had occasion to look at the lighting wiring in my loft - specifically at the ceiling fittings. As you know, I am sure, these are places where several cables are typically connected.
I found the earth wires at the back of the fittings simply twisted together and not in a terminal - no sleeving either. Most of these fittings were underneath insulation, but one was on open display and easily visible from the loft hatch.
The wiring was done by a quite well known local NICEIC contractor and I have the inspection certificate produced by somebody from a different firm..
I had an inspection done by another contractor and a discontinuity was found in a ring circuit due to a screw in a socket not having been tightened. In other respects, the wiring did pass the prescribed instrument tests, however going round we found another 5 issues that should have been picked up on an inspection.
If I do any significant electrical work, I do get an inspection done and point out to the person doing it precisely what I have done and where. Frankly, this is done only for the paperwork because I know that the work that I do is safe and to a high standard - I have a vested interest in doing so.
If I added up the cost of inspections over the years it would have become cheaper to supplement my electrical engineering degree with the appropriate technical college course and the test gear.
The original question was actually about what to do with earths at a plastic switch plate and plastic dry lining box.
I think that that is overstating the issue. It is quite easy to do both. Discussion topics here are generally about quite standard domestic wiring installations, not wiring up the national grid.
That really isn't the issue.
I don't see your motivation for the post.
- You criticise what is posted, yet don't want to participate when it is possible that you might have a contribution to make.
- You fail to notice that if somebody makes a gross mistake in posting an answer that it gets picked up by somebody who does know. Very little gets posted in this group that is in some way dangerous that doesn't then come under scrutiny from others and an obvious conclusion drawn.
- It is not the case that because somebody asks a question that they do not have the knowledge to do the work. What does a professional do if confronted with a situation where the way to proceed is not clear? They are going to ask a more experienced colleague or just wing it perhaps without even noticing. The fact that somebody does ask represents that they have thought about the issue. If you look through threads on electrical work here, you will notice that when somebody does post a question or where the subsequent discussion implies that they are not really competent to do the work, then somebody will gently or if need be forcefully point that out.
- As has been demonstrated and debated many times here and elsewhere, there is just no significant incidence of problems as a result of DIY fixed electrical work. The problems nearly all come from portable appliances and overloading of sockets and the like.
Strange. If any wrong advice is given there are a number of genuine experts who will correct it.
You come across as another IMM - the only one in the world who is right.
And those who start a post by *claiming* qualifications to enforce their opinion perhaps should remember that a kid of 12 just as easily do this on a newsgroup.
Now, since you've decided to make your post part of this thread, enlighten us all by telling just what incorrect advice has been given here?
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