Wiring of electric shutters?

[T i m]

Hi All,

A mate of mine had some steel roller shutters fitted over his old multi-fold doors and we were talking today about making at least one side electrically operated.

So I assume there would be some form of 240V feed via an up / down switch but what would be the 'correct' way to wire this into the mains.

ie Would (could) it simply be plugged to a nearby 13A socket (assuming single phase and < 13A of course) or would it have to be 'hard wired' (being it's not 'portable' ).

If the latter would that have to be fused / dp isolatable etc?

We assumed the guys that would fit the electric shutters would know what to do but we wondered how much elecrtical work (provision) might need to be done in the garage pre install?

All the best ..

T i m

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Pity this wasn't posted a week or so ago, I posted a link to Netto who had a lifting pully with up'n'down operating module for £40, would have been ideal for this.

-- Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

[T i m]

Doh! .. Just my luck .. ;-(

I like to 'look after' this particular mate as he let's me service my cars in his nice fully equipped and heated workshops ;-)

Still not sure how they (shutters) wound be wired in though .. ?

All the best ..

T i m

[PeTe33]

All the door people will ask you to provide is a fused spur within 1m or the garage door. That's it.

When we had ours fitted, I didn't even do the fused spur bit, they just used an extension lead to power it up and test.

It's still running on an extension lead 8 months later, but it doesn't get opened very often so it's not been an urgent requirement.

:¬)

Cheers Pete

[T i m]

Ah, ok, so, what if this (fairly large) door should draw more than

13A .. I assume he would need a suitably MCB'd radial directly from the CU .. AND with a double pole isolator in-between maybe?

I'm not sure if the regs require complete isolation (ie double pole) etc?

;-)

A bit like my workshop .. but replace 8 months with ~ 5 years! ;-(

All the best Pete ..

T i m

[Andy Burns]

If the door needs more than 3kW of grunt to close it, I think I'd worrying more about it going wrong and injuring/killing somebody, than how to provide it with more juice ...

[T i m]

LOL .. indeed ;-)

But assuming that it's probably gonna be far less than this (once moving anyway) how should it be wired please?

Fused spur, dp switched spur, dp switched fused spur .. etc?

All the best ..

T i m

[Rumble]

T i m said the following on 27/01/2006 21:17:

As it's got a motor, it probably should be locally isolated for maintenance. A DP switched fused spur should be OK. The spur should be located in an easily accessible location adjacent to the shutter. Make sure you put it at the right end!

[T i m]

Ok ..

Ok . He also muttered summat that the contractors (on behalf of BG) told him when they were fitting the gas heaters and that's "if an electrical switch etc was to be mounted on the inside of an 'outside wall' it should be mounted on a piece of wood" ...?

At the shutter not CU end you mean?

I have no idea what state his electrics are in but guess they could do with a good revamp (it's sorta just evolved in there over the 30+ years he's had it).

All the best and thanks for your time ..

T i m

[Rumble]

There's no requirement to put an electrical switch on a wooden backboard.

Actually, I meant the 'right' end of the shutter mechanism :-) i.e. the same end as the motor. You can put the control switch either side for your convenience, but the isolator should be adjacent to the motor.

HTH

[Owain]

In that case take a new circuit right back to the CU and don't get involved with his wiring.

(If this is a workplace then Electricity At Work Regulations will apply.)

Owain

[T i m]

*I* don't intend to (not sure what I might enearth (excuse the pun) there)!

How do they differ for any other (ie domestic) 'electricity safety' out of interest please?

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

But when you say 'should' is that 'ideally' or 'must' do you know please?

The reason I ask is knowing how informative these shutter companies can be they may not know what side the motor wire will appear to be able to get the spur / isolator in before they turn up?

I asked one a while ago how much curent one small window shutter would draw and the first nswer was "13A" (because it was plugged into a 13A socket). I then asked again and the second answer was 'less than a radio' ?

I offered there must be an information plate on the motor or assembly somewhere but I never got an accurate answer?

*I* would have pushed it further but I sensed it would have been pointless with this particular person .. ;-(

All the best ..

T i m

[Rumble]

Weeell, if I was writing an electrical specification, I would have said "A DP switched fused spur *shall* be provided for isolation. The spur

*shall* be located in an easily accessible location adjacent to the shutter and *shall* be labelled accordingly." making it a requirement for the electrician to do so, but leaving it to him/her to decide the exact location (Alternatively, I might provide an elevation drawing prescribing the location of the spur).

It is a requirement of BS7671 (the wiring regs) to provide isolation and switching. The combined effect of regulations 476-02-02 and 476-02-03 means that local isolation is normally provided for a motor (to be sure that the motor will not start unexpectedly whilst you are working on or near it and to be further sure that you have switched off the correct isolator).

The shutter company should be able to advise on best practice and also let you know which end the motor is - it must come up as a regular question for them.

As another poster has said, you could just get the shutter installed and tested on an extension cable and then deal with the fixed wiring later.

As to the current demand, I can't imagine that the motor will be anything more that 1/4 h.p., which would pull less than 1 Amp, but you may need a 13A fuse in the spur to prevent inrush popping a 3A fuse (just like a vacuum cleaner).

[Owain]

The regulations for installation and strengths and capabilities of equipment will probably be met if you can demonstrate strict compliance with IEE Regs and appropriate BS. Projects should therefore be designed by persons trained or qualified for the design process. This would include full design docs. They introduce requirements for switching and isolation which may require switches/isolators that can be locked off to prevent inadvertent reconnection. They also cover systems of work, ie working 'dead' with locked-off isolators and using an approved testing procedure to determine conductors are not live. Means of access, working space and lighting are covered by the regulations. Reg 16 requires that no person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger unless he possesses such knowledge or expeirence as may be appropriate habving regards to the nature of the work.

Are you insured for this type of work?

Owain

[T i m]

Ok .. understood, thanks ;-)

Ok. Whhat if there are two shutters (he does have two manual ones at the moment and was only thinking of having the bigger one of the two converted to electric but thinking ahead for him) would it be ok to provide a single switched / fused spur placed between them (assuming current ratings were ok etc) ? The reason I ask is I believe some of these shutters have more than two main conductors from the up / down switch to the motor (L1, L2 and N etc) so you can't use a std d/p / fused switched spur jobby in the output leg? Soooo if it was in the feed 'to' both switches / shutters it would still provide isolation but would that be acceptable (assuming both shutters were side by side anyway)?

I tried before .. no use whatsoever .. but hopefully no reflection on the more typical std shutter Co found today .. ?

He could (and indeed might) but he likes to get things right so would probably like it all done and dusted in one hit.

Understood.

Thanks for that ..

T i m

[Rumble]

T i m said the following on 30/01/2006 20:21:

Personally, I would go for two - spurs are not expensive.

The reason I ask is I believe some of

Yes, but there will be an up/down switch which deals with the up/down live wires. This switch will have live/neutral/earth from the spur as well as a four-core cable to the shutter. The shutter company will provide the switch, which may (or may not) be key-operated (your choice).