Security post

[John]

A friend has asked me to install a security post at the end of his driveway, the sort that lay down flat and lock. The problem is his drve is block paving right up to the tarmac footpath apart from a drainage channel. I have explained to him that the pavers are only a few inches thick and that the post will act as a very good lever if somebody wanted to remove it (and the pavers it will be bolted to)!! He says it is only really as a visual deterrent. My question is are pavers hard to drill and will they split under the pressure from a rawlbolt. The post has come with a tube of No Nonsense Injection Resin and four 12mm x 100mm self cutting bolts. I presume the resin will be a waste of time in this application and that the bolts are too long, would this type of bolt (but shorter) be better than a Rawlbolt. How thick are pavers 2 1/2" or so?

Cheers

John

[Tim S]

John coughed up some electrons that declared:

You're right about bolting to the blocks - if they're bedded on sand (common), a minor knock on the post is going to lift out the one(s) it's bolted to.

Couldn't you remove a few blocks, dig a foot deep hole, fill with concrete and put the blocks back on top. Then bolt right through? The weight of the block and the friction with the ground ought to be enough.

Another alternative for less concrete and less blocks up might be to take out 2, bang a metpost or 3-4 bits of iron bar into the ground and set a small block of strong concrete about 3-4" thick round the top, then blocks back and bolt through.

By bolting through the blocks you wont have any expansive load on them.

And you could just set threaded rod into the concrete to mount the post - one less drilling operation. Put blocks with holes drilled back as soon as you pour the concrete along with threaded rod. A bend at the end of the rod in the concrete will help assure it's held OK. Wait a week then bolt post on.

Cheers

Tim Cheers

Tim

[fictitiousemail]

And tell him to watch he doesn't drive over the protruding bolt meantime !!!

PS.When you post a reply to this the Newsgroups are shown as free.uk.diy.home I wondered why my previous reply didn't appear .Had to change it to uk.d-i-y

What's that all about?

[OG]

The original post was to both groups. Perhaps your reader is only sending a reply to the first.

[Rod]

That seems to be because Tim S set a follow-up:

Subject: Re: Security post From: Tim S Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:44:03 +0000 Newsgroups: free.uk.diy.home,uk.d-i-y Newsgroups: free.uk.diy.home,uk.d-i-y Followup-To: free.uk.diy.home

[Tim S]

[e-mail] coughed up some electrons that declared:

I was thinking that afterwards. Bit of scrap wood with holes for the studs over the top should do.

Newsreader wibblings. Might have been my newsreader setting the followup to free.uk.diy.home. Sorry.

Cheers

Tim

[Phil L]

The pavers are either 50mm or 60mm and neither are any use at all for bolting things to - your friend may think it will be OK and act as a visual deterrent but it won't - it won't last 5 minutes, the first time someone brushes against it, it will be gone, given that the pavers are really just bricks sat on a bed of sand.

To install it properly, you'll need to take up a few pavers and concrete a patch about a foot deep and six inches square, the easiest way to do this is to cut out the shape of the hole with a grinder, so that the BP pattern isn't ruined, and concrete the hole to the top of the pavers, leave for a week or so, then use the resin and bolts as normal.

for added strength, prior to casting the concrete, knock a few pieces of steel into the sides of the hole and leave protruding into the void to be filled.

[Midge]

What exactly are we trying to deter here?

I can't help thinking that if I stuck a post at the end of MY drive, I'm probably going to be the one who hits it sooner or later! If you're going to the extent of concreting something in, why not a gatepost/gate?

Just a thought....

Midge.

[meow2222]

Attaching a post to a block paviour is a waste of time, as has been said. You can either lift some and get concrete down, or you can buy posts specfically designed for paviours. These have a long metal tongue that lies on the paving, thus they bolt to several blocks. I doubt theyre at all secure though, could just be lifted off the ground I expect.

You might be able to whack some steel bar into the ground instead of digging, concreting and relaying the blocks, but I dunno how you'd connect it to the post, nor how vandal proof it would be. I'd go with a big heavy lump of concrete.

NT

[Phil L]

He's not concreting anything in, he's putting down a block of concrete, to which a security post is attached, these posts can be easily lifted off by the owner, via a key, or laid flat for driving over and then erected again, to prevent their own car from being removed from the drive....if you'd read the OP you would already know this

[Phil L]

The other main drawback with this is plastic gas and water mains which are easily punctured, not to mention electricity mains.

[The Medway Handyman]

Installed a couple of these earlier this year. You can get posts designed to be concreted in, you can't bolt to blocks.

I removed some blocks, dug down about 18" & concreted in the base, then replaced the blocks around it. Had to cut a couple IIRC.

I used

you could get a concrete in base from the post supllier.

[Kevin Poole]

Bearing in mind Phil's warning, how about drilling through the paviors, walloping in metre lengths of studding (aka threaded rod, allthread), then dropping the post's base over them and putting nuts on? 10mm or

12mm would do, stainless if feeling particularly wealthy. The end of the rods could be peened over if there's a risk of an intruder with a spanner. I'd make up a flogging piece to protect the end of the thread while hammering it in, and run three or four nuts on too, so the thread is cleaned up as they are removed.

Less secure than a concrete pile, but much less work.

[Dave Starling]

He would also look pretty silly if the owner calls him back a few weeks later to say the drains are now blocked and they had to dig up the driveway to replace a section of drains.. :)

Anyway, if you just whack lengths of studding into soil they will just work loose and pull out..

This sounds like one of those jobs to walk away from or to spend more time and do it properly as others have indicated.

Dave

[AJH]

I agree, it sounds like a good idea if you've got an expensive and attractive vehicle to protect, but I would want some kind of failsafe warning device I think particularly if I had to reverse on dark early mornings/evening in the wet etc! A bit of a drag having to keep putting it up & down as well. If it's only a visual deterrent then maybe it's better to rely on a good car alarm for day time, plus security lighting for night time? Or how about elec gates!

[Tim S]

AJH coughed up some electrons that declared:

Unless the post is virtually a girder, I can't see it being much of a deterrent for theft. Joyriders and criminals who just need a one use getaway vehicle will probably just squidge the post and accept the consequential bumper damage.

The main use I've seen such posts put to is to preserve a parking space.

Then again, if the customer wants a post, then it's a job - no need to argue.

Cheers

Tim

[Andy Dingley]

Don't do it. Although it's fine for a "Don't park here" visual deterrent, someone will eventually nudge the post by accident and then it will lift the blocks clean out.

If you do this, lift a few blocks, clear out a bucket-sized hole and get some concrete down there. Then bolt long and go into the concrete (maybe just cast some rag bolts in and leave studs poking up).

Otherwise resin fittings are a good idea into blocks. Otherwise use a big plastic wallplug, but Rawlbolt shield anchors are unnecessary (for a deterrent post) and will cheerfully split a brick.

[Huge]

I recently replaced the post box at the end of my drive, which was mounted on a

5ft piece of scaffold pole, driven into the ground and then concreted in. I pulled the post out of the ground with my Discovery, complete with the chunk of concrete...

[robgraham]

But a padlocked gate would be just as secure - or insecure.

Rob graham

[george (dicegeorge)]

or why not half a gate so pedestrians and cyclists and prams can get in and out but not cars- and it would be more visible so less likely to accidentally hit it yourself!

g