Re: Huf Haus on last night's Grand Designs

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wrote:

My Crittall windows are NOT draughty!
MM
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clive snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Clive Long,UK) writes:
[14 lines snipped]

She forgot one.
Huff knew they were on telly. He sent his best team and told them to work their arses off.
--
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[email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]
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I thought the Germans were sticklers for this 48 hour maximum week nonsense. Didn't seem to apply here.
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On 29 Jan 2004 22:20:18 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ukmisc.org.uk (Huge) wrote:

Didn't see the prog. but searching on the web revealed a very very expensive house for what it was.
Be it e-ver so tren -dee.. There's no -o place like home.
DG
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(Clive Long,UK) writes:

Great house, great quality. 450K was rip-off for what it was.
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There you are then! We could compete on price, no?
MM
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wrote:

If we did it to that quality and time scale it would cost 550K.
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wrote:

<snip/>
Well said that man ... its not even necessary to scrap the institutions (although many of their staff would have to go). The resulting qualification can be called a "degree" if that satisfies the need of the PTB to have meaningless statistics about the number of graduates in the working population.
However, it should be evident to all but the most dogmatic of politcally motivated social-engineers that it would be of immense benefit to all (students, tax payers, consumers, ...) to restore the distinction between tertiary *education* (academic, oriented towards research, maximizing the potential of intellectual capability, etc.) and tertiary *training* (vocational, job- and skills-oriented).
Of course, *accessiblity* would have to be universal -- children from low income families should be able to benefit from academic education if they have the ability to do so, just as those from higher income families, without the ability to benefit from academia, should be routed towards vocational training and prevented from taking academic university places from those more deserving of them.
Julian
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Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:57:36 +0000, Julian Fowler

Quite. IIRC, the means tested grant arrangement worked quite well for dealing with the access issue..
.andy
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wrote:

It is a little more involved than that, I think. At some point we, as a society, need to come to grips with prejudices that affect the accessibility issue - for example, the attriude of some lower-income parents that tertiary information isn't "for their sort of people", schools and teachers that discourage pupils from applying to certain universities for reasons of reverse snobbery, etc. In addition, something would need to be done to avoid the trap in which students from low income families are fully funded from taxation, students from high income families are funded with little real impact on parents' disposible income, leaving those in the middle to dig really deep into their pockets ...
I suspect also a significant dent in the need for taxpayer-funded tertiary education could be made by bringing back / re-emphasizing the sorts of courses that are undertaken part time alongside paid employment - again, names are unimportant - call them "apprenticeships", "sandwich courses", etc. Again, a cultural attitude shift is needed such that these are recognized as of equal value to "academic" university courses whilst being substantially different in their content and intent.
Julian
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Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:58:13 +0000, Julian Fowler

Of course.

Also the political correctness of having a target of 50% of the population "going to a university".

That's a matter of choosing the means criteria correctly.

I think that that is the essence.

.andy
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wrote:

than 5 GCSE A-C grades. The 50% target is ludicrous.
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:14:39 -0000, "Neil Jones"

encouraging people to borrow money to pay for access and you can achieve them.
The question is whether that happens before people realise that it is all a rather cruel con.
.andy
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Andy Hall wrote in message etc.
I'm not sure that we shouldn't think in "Yes Minister" terms Why would you wish to increase the price of a "free" product? Obviously to reduce the demand. This achieves three objectives:-
1) Fewer poor students who you have to finance. 2) Less demand for university education, less demand for lecturers, so you can reduce their budgets. 3) It's a tax increase, so you can pay politicians more money!
Regards Capitol
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 22:20:20 -0000, "Capitol"

And not only that, it's a planned future tax increase. Just for once Herr Brown is thinking ahead, and he's figured out a way of imposing a tax increase on students ahead of time.
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4. Reducing the dropout rate as the financial commitment is probably going to encourage students to (a) not apply for courses they are not really interested in; and (b) stick with it once they are there.
5. Force more students into PT employment which may give them a bit of real-world experience. When I was a PT mature student doing Business studies it was scary how little general knowledge and knowledge of how the business world works many of the 18-20 year olds had.
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<snip stuff about further education>
This mut be a wind up or a first- a thread on uk.d-i-y where everyone is agreeing AND talking sense !
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Bob Mannix
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All I have read is bolocks.
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I'm sure there are those here(not me of course) who might say that just made it perfect ;o)>
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.andy
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