Power Cuts/Generators yet again

Well, with the inductive loads on which I've tried it (e.g. central heating pump) the displayed numbers stack up - in that displayed watts = displayed volts x displayed amps x displayed power factor. I know that doesn't prove that its *right* - but it's got a fighting chance!

The fact that it displays these parameters separately means that you can also work out VA (ignoring power factor) which is probably more relevant than watts when considering the use of gennys or inverters for emergency standby use.

Reply to
Set Square
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And VA would be broadly accurate, I'd expect -- phase is the trickiest of the three to measure cheaply.

Thomas Prufer

Reply to
Thomas Prufer

I posed the question on uk.rec.engines.stationay, few responses but a bit of consensus. The heating oil (28 sec) will run in a diesel but some extra lubrication will be required for the injection pump. I think because its cetane rating is wrong it will not ignite as well, one poster had experience of it tarring up an engine.

Your suggestion of derating could work well, especially if it meant the injector could be optimised, I think you would have to inject at the current timing and maybe shorten the time to injection cut off.

If I were planning a standby generator I would stick with petrol if I thought it would run

Reply to
Andrew Heggie

Volts and amps are easy to measure fairly accurately the phase angle not so easy but once you have that the rest is just maths.

Nice to know that the device does produce reasonable answers, thanks for running the tests. Pity you're not on commission...

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

I think we all benefit from sharing experiences of devices we have bought. I have certainly benefitted from other people's input on other devices - and am quite happy to do experiments.

Just to show that I'm not biassed, I'm not claiming that this volt/amp/meter is the best thing since sliced bread - but simply that it does a reasonable job and seems to be reasonable value for £20.

I did have one minor problem with it on the first day - when it locked up and wouldn't respond to any of the buttons. The reset button also didn't work, and I had to take the batteries out for several minutes and start again. It has been ok ever since.

Reply to
Set Square

Well I don't mind adding a bit of petrol and a dash of 2 stroke oil, though it would be nice if it ran "neat". I can appreciate that heating oil is not intended to be an internal combustion engine fuel so one should expect the odd snag.

All I know about diesels is the basic school boy stuff. Are those two tweaks easy, the timing I guess is but the second?

Propane could be an option, at the moment we cook on electric and I hate it. So at some point a couple of 47kg propane cylinders will appear along with at least a gas hob.

CHP would be nice but the economics don't quite add up the right way, not to mention the non stop noise.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Neither are trivial.

Many small gensets can be converted ~GBP100. Propane has a number of advantages, the bottles need to be kept warm as you will be using a vapour take off.

AJH

Reply to
Andrew Heggie

Bang (or not..) goes that idea then.

Butane (blue) has a problem in the cold. Propane (orange) doesn't suffer the same, at least not at normal UK winter temperatures. I can't imagine that people with propane CH or cooking have no heating or cooking when it gets cold. The tanks/cylinders are frequently outside, unprotected. I've seen propane bottles with an inch or more of frost around them, handy for indicating how much gas is left. B-)

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

It does if the required rate of vapourisation exceeds the heat transfer from the air through the bottle (including insulating ice layer), the latent heat of vapourisation simply cools the remaining propane below its boiling point. This is of course highly dependant on the size of the engine, if you are running at 2kW(e) then the heat draw will be around 10kW(t), nearly 2ltres/hour and comparable to a couple of biggish hobs. Increase this to 20kW(e) and I am fairly confident you will need a liquid feed and a heated vapouriser.

AJH

Reply to
Andrew Heggie

We've been cooking on bottle propane for 11 years without problems, and the bottles live outside, unprotected.

Reply to
Huge

-44C blooming cold... Even on a very cold night for the UK say -10C you still have 30+C of temperature gradient to push heat into the cylinder.

Very much so but I think for the sizes we are talking, max of 5kVA genset, running at an average of 20% capacity I doubt it is of practical concern.

I choose 1kVA as an average with care, that is pretty much what our daily average load is. Though that includes when we are all asleep, so I guess the "active" average load might be as much as 2kVA.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

My daughter tells me it is -22C at the moment :-)

I agree, which is why I posted it is about the same as a couple of hobs full on, bear in mine it becomes more of a problem as the bottles empty.

Slightly related is that it is, allegedly, known for lpg equipped vehicles with no antifreeze in the coolant to freeze their vapourisers before the thermostat opens, bringing the vehicle to a halt.

This accords with what I found with our genset, though this is not domestic use.

I think you are mixing the terminology a bit here, OK the genset needs to know the kVA, because if either current or Volts exceed the rating of the machine something gives (after allowing a safety margin) but it is the kW draw that determines the heat load of the engine ( and indeed whether it stalls). So you may have a 10kVA genset capable of supplying 7.5kW(e) continuously but working on average at 2kW(e). In point of fact this is what makes permanent magnet alternators and inverters so interesting to me for home use (once demand shifts from

90%heat:10%electricty to something nearer 70%heat:30% electricity)

AJH

Reply to
Andrew Heggie

But not in the UK, Canada?

Not quite sure how the automatic change over valves function, I'd assume on cylinder pressure when it gets "too low" the valve switches to the other cylinder. I doubt they switch back though, which would allow you to toggle between cylinders. As one became too cold to vapourise the valve would switch to the other, allowing the cold one to warm up. When the second got too cold the valve would switch back to, the now warm, orginal cylinder. B-)

Just a bit... B-)

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Boston Mass.

OK I had not considered this as a possibility, in fact I did not know such things existed.

AJH

Reply to
Andrew Heggie

AFAIK they don't switch back.

One method (I've seen it both in books, and on a building site feeding big heaters) is to run several tanks parallel. This reduces the amount of vapor each tank has to produce, while the surface increases.

Thomas Prufer

Reply to
Thomas Prufer

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