OT. Wahoo - I'm a Fair Trader!

[Andy Dingley]

What does that mean Steve? That you're this much of an ass when you're sober?

[Andy Dingley]

Steve, there are things called "killfiles". Maybe you can employ some sort of IT specialist to come round and explain them to you.

[John Rumm]

If your business is related to the sort of manual skilled tasks that many of US DIYers carry out on a frequent basis, or is perhaps something associated with a building trade then feel free.

[dmc]

Not sure I follow this. Why would an increased hit rate on his site be of use to him if all those visitors are not prospective customers?

He doesn't AFAIK sell advertising space on there...surely it just increases his hosting costs?

Darren

[Stephen Howard]

Indeed it does. I track the links to my own site - and as I use a signature on my Usenet posts that point to my site I can tell when someone has 'clicked through'. Thing is, the amount of clicks via these forums is negligible - I get far more through the various web sites that 'reprint' post made here....though they're still vastly outnumbered by the hits that come via search engines and specific links.

That said, the amount of work that results from forum posts is tiny - but the correspondence they generate is considerable. Any hard-nosed business advisor would tell me to drop the link and cut down on the number of advisory emails I send out....but that doesn't take into account the fact that I enjoy corresponding with people and giving whatever advice I can to help them out.

As someone who takes on work from global sources, the commercial follow-up from Usenet posts doesn't even begin to cover the real costs involved in responding to posts and off-forum correspondence....so I really don't see how someone who works only within a specific UK postcode area will do any better.

Regards,

[Steve Firth]

I'm mildly amused by the way that so many people think that the correct response to a reasonable and reasoned statement is abuse.

Indeed the entire line taken by Dave and his chums has been libel and abuse in equal measure. Oh, and that's ignoring the rather sad sight of a bunch of people falling over themselves to use various disabilities as an insult. Does not one of you feel ashamed over your behaviour?

[geoff]

Steve, we're a clique, we stick together you're an outsider

The obvious solution would be for you to f*ck off

there, are you happy now ?

[The Medway Handyman]

You clearly have a serious problem Steve. Welcome back to my killfile.

[Steve Firth]

I'm grateful for the first signs of honesty.

[Steve Firth]

In what way is being polite, but having a different opinion to you and others "a serious problem"? Indeed in what way does whatever my opinion may be justify the vile way in which you and a few others have behaved?

Do you think that bothers me any more than the last time you started peeping between your fingers?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh,. do come on. Thcweam and thcweam until you are thick!

Can I call you Violet?

[Andy Dingley]

Yes Steve, you ought to be.

It's part of a thing called "society" that there's a process of socialisation where children learn to observe the reactions of their peers and adapt their own behaviour accordingly. As the friendless kid standing alone on the edge of the playground, you never really grasped this and your compensation was to begin to regard the rest of the schoool as _beneath_ you. Your arrogance grew, probably justified in your own mind by being just that little bit smarter than most, and you dug yourself further and further in.

In extreme cases this leads to hollowing out volcanoes and sticking lasers onto sharks. Fortunately for the safety of the world you only made it as far as being an arrogant tosser on Usenet.

The local equivalent is the killfile. If a significant number of people are kf'ing you, either you're being an ass or they're all mistaken. Work it out.

[Stuart Noble]

Steve's wife is a child psychologist isn't she? He won't take kindly to being lectured on that particular subject! And don't mention "society" or you'll have Andy to deal with

[Andy Hall]

I thought I'd let that one go, but in any case people can modify their behaviour in response to another individual as well as to a nebulous group.

[Steve Firth]

There is no such thing as society.

[Steve Firth]

The only one behaving badly in any respect was "Dave", altough come to think of it some of his supporters also couldn't wait to lie in the gutter.

[geoff]

not when you're involved, no

[Andy Hall]

That's my line :-)

[Si]

In message , Andy Hall writes

Well one of you is Thatcher! - which?

[Andy Hall]

I could never aspire to be the great lady.

As is often the case, quotes are taken out of context, and that one is no exception. The context of it was in relation to people taking responsibility for themselves, their families and their neighbours rather than blaming "society" for their misfortunes and expecting a government handout for them.

course, in a DIY newsgroup, how could anybody assume, or want to assume that the government or others around us in the context of a group will provide?

The more nebulous definitions of social groups including families by sociologists, or for that matter in relation to the animal kingdom is more of a "scientific" one but has been used by governments and others as a means to justify unwarranted intervention into peoples' lives for the greater good of "society". That leads to a fatalism and an abdication of responsibility of individuals for themselves, their families and their neighbours.

Whether one wants to take a co-operative view of one's surroundings or an individualist's view really doesn't alter how one has interactions with others in a civilised environment. For those more inclined to take a cooperative view, labeling it with the word "society", there ought to be an implied definition of the rules of that, although often there isn't. For the individualist, it is (or should be) that one should treat others as one would expect to be treated oneself as a minimum and preferably better. The individualist isn't any more authorised to behave badly towards other individuals than the collectivist is to take from the rest of the group without contributing to it.