OT Salting the road

Sorry - I just feel like having a good moan. Here on the Chilterns we had max

4cm of snow at 5.00pm last night. I live on a steep hill on the main A404 from HIgh Wycombe to Amersham. There was plenty of warning of the snow but we never saw a salt lorry all day. So there was pack ice on the road and everybody was slipping and sliding - it took my neighbour from 4.30 to 11.30pm to do 8 miles to get home!!!! No change this morning - still pack ice and the traffic has been solid again since about 6.00am. Now at 10.20am the first grit lorry has just gone past.

It amazes me - everyone knew there was going to be snow (and you can guarantee if there's any about that the tops of the Chilterns will get it) but we STILL get this nightmare every time.

Bucks County Council Highways - you're a joke. Apparently, according to their website, they decide when to salt the road depending on the road temperature, not the air temperature or the weather forecast! They even took away the salt box that used to be on the verge over road, which we could use to rescue stranded cars. Because of vandalism they said. There were at least 30 cars left abandoned just on this one hill all night.

/moan

Reply to
Peter Taylor
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Why don't you salt the road for yourselves? You obviously know what the conditions are like.

I live on a hill too, several of us have a bag of rock salt each and do a few houses either side of our own and everyone benefits. Total cost about ten pounds a year.

MrCheerful

Reply to
MrCheerful

WTF should he/we? That's one of the things we pay Council Tax for.

Reply to
Parish

I think the OP would have done if "they" hadn't taken the grit bin away.

Why pay twice? Assuming your road is one that does get treated by the council gritter of course.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice
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Why pay taxes and then do the job yourself?

Reply to
Huge

I was once told that the reason almost no-one (shops included) clears the (assumed public) area immediately outside their property any more, is that you can have your arse sued off if you don't do a perfect job and someone slips and injures themselves. Leave it alone and it's the authoritys' responsibility. They have better lawyers and can mostly avoid liability.

Reply to
John Laird

8 miles, he could have walked it in about 3hrs and been a lot better for it. Have people forgotten what their legs are for?

This is normal for most councils and with the county wide networks of road sensors and weather stations is normally pretty good. Remember that you can get a very sharp ground frost with the air temp several degrees above 0C. As for gritting based on the weather forecast, you'd be moaning next that they wasted money sending the gritters out when it didn't get frosty. Hindsight... 100% accurate the best forecast there is.

However I'd like to know where our gritters got to yesterday. Didn't see one all day. With yesterdays conditions I'd have expected to see them run past at least twice if not 3 or 4 times. I wonder if the Highways Agency/County Councils pulled "priority" on the District Councils and got the gritters in position to keep the primary/trunk routes open at the expense of the secondaries?

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Further to that, I believe (although IANAL, so feel free to correct me) that the same situation applies to clearing snow _on your own property_, e.g. from the pavement to the front door. If someone, e.g. postie, slips and injures themselves then you are liable if you cleared the snow whereas if you leave it alone then you're not (presumably it is then an Act of God or similar).

Reply to
Parish

You know I think you may be right.

Reply to
John Laird

Because if you don't, the job won't get done?

(not saying it is "fair" or makes sense - just making rhe observation!)

Reply to
John Rumm

My wife went to get a bus in Norwich at 4pm the bus didn't turn up and the roads were gridlocked so she went back to work. At 7pm she went out to try and find a bus. She found the 3.15pm bus about 1/4 of a mile from where it had started and got on. She got home just after 9pm.

On the radio last night a highways spokesman was justifying their strategy on gritting saying they had gritted all the night before and started again at 2pm. Of course by 2pm it was snowing and people had already started going home in droves so the busy roads stopped the gritters getting about.

I note today the highways spokesman on the television was doing the usual post fiasco spin and 2pm has now become a much more reasonable sounding "just after lunch" Have bloody long lunches at the council don't they - nothing new there then.

Sam

Reply to
Sam

Not at all. I just ring and complain.

Reply to
Huge

Round here (north surrey but won't say exactly where) I live on the side of a valley, so there's fairly steep roads around. We got gritters come round on monday evening/night fairly late, close to midnight. Come tuesday morning there were no gritters out at all, nor did I see any all day (my desk is by a window so I see them if they go past either of the roads my place is on, tis on a corner). We'd had a brief fall of snow, maybe a cm or two, on mon night after midnight. That melted over tuesday. No gritters tuesday. Brief fall of snow again tues lunchtime, again mostly melted. Still no gritters. Around 6 the snow fell thick and fast, still no gritters had show up. I saw none (their orange lights are visible right throughout my place, even with the curtains shut, they're damn bright and I like soft lighting in the eves) all evening, and from the look of things this morning there's still not been a visit by the gritters.

Can always tell cos the pavements take on speckles where the grit's flown far enough to get onto them. People around here haven't been snowed in, so if they can get a car around (with care, and impossible on

*some* of the side roads due to icy packed snow from idjits who don't know how to drive up hills in snow) they should certainly be able to get a gritter around (ie, the local traffic isn't chockablock).

I think they need to re-examine their strategy of gritting, though it's interesting that they may have been pulled off more minor roads in order to grit the main roads. Having said that, on monday night I counted no fewer than three working the roads on the sides of the valley. One on this side, two on the other side (they show up for a long way on a clear night!) That doesn't suggest they're really in that short supply that they can't move *some* to extra main routes yet *still* get the minor ones done.

Velvet

Reply to
Velvet

We got about the same here in Wilts, and SWMBO has just come home from work for lunch and tells me that the local secondary school has been closed "because it's too dangerous"! Apparently due to the snow/ice on the paths and playground.

So why close the school? Well, I guess that little Johnny might slip and hurt himself and his parents may sue the Council. So why don't the teachers clear the bloody stuff up? Well, it's not in their job description, so if they slip and hurt themselves they won't be insured, and may sue the Council. So what about the Caretaker? Well he hasn't been on the advanced snow-clearing course so his union won't let him do it and will call a strike if he's forced too.

Hands up all those who were at school more than 20 years ago who can remember their school ever being closed due to snowfalls of less than 4 feet or if the heating broke down?

Reply to
Parish

Sadly, many people have done just that.

We've got a school round the corner (fortunately far enough away for it not to be a problem). It's quite amazing the number of Mums who insist on dropping the kids off who live barely further away than the distance they can park.

I would love to see a scheme whereby satellite vehicle tracking could impose charges based upon waiting time outside of schools and other places. Hell, you could do away with parking meters at the roadside and in car parks too! And pay for just the time you take rather than buying a ticket for 3 hours to do 10 minute shopping.

And the upside would be no more tax disc for the car. Sod the MOT and insurance document checking in the post office - just log onto the ministries web site and have your credit card checked out ;)

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't guaranteed to reach me.

Reply to
PoP

My kids have been off today, for exactly the reasons you provide. Their school has been extended so many times there are covered, half-covered and uncovered walkways between buildings and it seems that keeping these clear of 2" of snow is beyond those staff responsible. I strongly doubt any council buildings suffer from the same level of bodging and shoddy infrastructure (two drinking fountains for 1500 kids) - it should be the other way round, council buildings get upgraded only after everything else. Even the gubbinment seem to have a partial clue, with much of the recent capital increases being granted direct to headteachers and not channelled through the LEAs.

Reply to
John Laird

South Gloucestershire seemed to do a decent job - the B roads I was on this morning were gritted (I saw some lanes that weren't, but they are very minor and don't really go anywhere). My road wasn't done but it's (a) flat, (b) effectively a crescent, and (c) in a 20MPH limit (therefore lower accident risk from a skid) so IMO it should be lowest priority (it's possibly also too marrow for a gritter).

Gloucestershire was a different story - many lanes that are the largest and most direct route to some villages were sheet ice and never get done, and even the through routes hadn't been done properly judging by the junctions.

Different priorities of course. And we pay less council tax in SG.

Reply to
Chris Hodges

I lived in Zurich for 2 winters, it often got below -20c, and we often had lots of snow in the city center. They NEVER salted. Much better idea than the UK obsession with salt. I would leave for work at 5am, and walk, there would be a guy with a snow blower cleaing the pavment onto the road. Brilliant place to live, I should go back, If only I could learn the language ..............

Rick

Reply to
Rick Dipper

lots of snow in the city center.

would leave for work at 5am, and walk,

They wouldn't bother to salt because it would be a waste of time. Salt doesn't work below -7C (?)

I actually think maybe having lower temperatures may help. Part of the problem in the UK is snowfalls often occur where the temperature hangs around freezing. Snow falls melts and then refreezes forming solid ice. If the temperature is much lower maybe the snow is more powdery and easier to move with a blower. It's also much easier to plan for a certainty - like guaranteed -20C temperatures with snow. Extreme weather is not a certainty in much of the UK.

What is annoying is how often the authorities in the UK seem to fail to predict expectable occurences. The development officer of Norwich City Council said, on the television tonight, that they had started gritting at

2pm knowing that it would take 3 hours ready for rush hour. It started snowing heavily about 2.30 so they got that bit right. Unfortunately they had failed to take into account peoples complete lack of faith in the councils abilities at keeping the roads open a hence the rush to get home starting about 2pm just in time to block the gritters. Doh!

Sam

Reply to
Sam

The hill here, Inkerman Hill, is a real killer on a bike for me, but it's not that bad and I know lots worse. It's about 450m long and rises 75m in total, and every summer it's used as a time trial for a major international bike race. Halfway up there is a junction with a side road and my house is on one corner. There are only 4 houses, the rest is woods, and I know three of us do buy our own salt. We always put some down on the junction as it's extremely dangerous in the ice - that's why there used to be a salt box here - but there's no way we could salt the whole hill ourselves. We did use some salt last night, and also some ballast. We helped a big articulated tanker trying to get up - it was literally inching its way along and took at least 1½ hours.

I phoned the Highways depot today and they were very defensive as you can imagine, but they did say they would look into putting the salt box back, which I hope will be a result. But they wouldn't explain why they don't salt at the right time. It's a main A road and gets very busy in rush hours. They knew there would be snow, but they just left it to freeze over. Even ambulances and police cars were having trouble - one ambulance going down had chains on its tyres.

Yes, we pay council tax like everyone else. But it's not the money, it's the principle. You don't mind helping out people in trouble, and it can be fun really - my wife was having a great time making tea for everyone who was stranded. But I do think you should be able to expect a responsible attitude from the Highways Dept to try to help get people home when they're stranded.

Peter

Reply to
Peter Taylor

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