More government stupidity.

[Tim Ward]

You really don't have the remotest clue about real life, do you?

[Andy Hall]

In the database.

[Andy Hall]

I go back to my original point which was that if the objective is to maximise revenue from car tax without wasting police and other official time on it, then there is no value in issuing pieces of paper to stick on cars.

I wasn't setting out to persuade anybody; just remarking that it's an unnecessary waste of public money. Of course there are those who would seem to believe that increased taxes are justified - there are even those who would advocate it as a major policy point. What is more surprising is that there are people stupid enough to vote for that.

[Andy Hall]

On the contrary. I would need to vote LibDem to be in that category.

[Graeme]

In message , Andy Hall writes

Assuming the police do not look at the vehicle, how are they going to tell the computer the registration number? Assuming they, or their camera, does actually need to look at the vehicle, then looking at the colour of the tax disc is just as easy as looking at the number plate, particularly if the car is parked at the side of the road, in the middle of a line of similarly parked vehicles.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , Graeme writes

I claim to be a member of the third class:-)

Having arrived at my local PO with all the documentation (I thought) it was very politely pointed out that the JMJ.... on my insurance document referred to a tractor and not my wife's Focus!

Do you get paid for issuing *free* licence discs for agricultural vehicles?

regards

[Graeme]

Oh! Yes, you're right, but I thought Buckie referred to something made by monks down in Devon?

Hell's Teeth! I haven't seen that since my Gran had a small glass at Christmas far too many years ago :-)

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 10:31:15 on Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Andy Hall remarked:

Ah, that's where you are going wrong. You don't understand the objective.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 22:26:34 on Sat, 9 Jun 2007, Owain remarked:

Vehicles spend a lot of their time parked.

Except they don't - that's not part of the policing strategy.

[Roland Perry]

It's very costly to fix, even if it needs doing, which is debatable.

No it isn't. Or are you suggesting moving to a system where the car's chassis number is visible and large enough for an ANPR camera to read, and use that as the ID of a car - rather than the somewhat simpler scheme we have now of numberplates?

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 09:41:43 on Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Andy Hall remarked:

Snap! So are yours, as you also well know. I'm glad my analogy has finally flushed that out.

A rare scenario, perhaps. The real scenario is the petty thief driving a car that he's failed to re-tax because he's too dumb or poor to have a strategy that a taxed car is the best camouflage.

[Andy Hall]

Who said anything about the involvement of the police in checking that car tax has been paid? This was my point - it's a very expensive way of enforcing tax collection. Even the HMRC don't routinely do that and they have much larger sums of money at stake. I am sure that the public, if asked about how they would like their policing money spent are likely to prioritise housebreaking, assault and even graffiti on a higher level than this.

That's a big assumption.

[Andy Hall]

From the DVLA web site:

DVLA's responsibilities

• maintaining records of licensed drivers and registered vehicles * issuing licences to drivers and the maintenance of the vehicle driving entitlements * maintaining records of driver endorsements, disqualifications and medical conditions * issuing registration certificates to vehicle keepers * collecting and enforcing vehicle excise duty (VED) * facilitating the police and intelligence authorities in dealing with vehicle related crime * registering and issuing tachograph cards * issuing vehicle registration marks * selling attractive vehicle registration marks * selling anonymised data

Collecting and enforcing vehicle excise duty does not require the issuance of coloured pieces of paper, unless, of course you consider that they are part of their "attractive vehicle registration marks" product line.

[Andy Hall]

Exactly. Having coloured bits of paper on cars is even less important.

Person ally, I wouldn't waste money on fixing either. However, if it is deemed appropriate to fix a problem, then it should be done properly.

[Andy Hall]

There wasn't an issue to flush out in the first place - it was all completely clear and obvious.

Petty thief....

This is a very complicated and expensive way of removing such from the gene pool.

[Mark Goodge]

The DVLA's objectives are as stated above. However, the DVLA's objectives are merely a subset of the government's objectives, which are determined by factors other than the purely fiscal.

The government has decided to impose car excise duty, and collect it via the DVLA through a process of issuing tax discs, at least partly because doing so affords a measure of control over the cars on the road as well as providing revenue to the exchequer.

As you said before, if the objective is to maximise revenue from car tax without wasting police and other official time on it, then there is no value in issuing pieces of paper to stick on cars. However, as Roland has pointed out, that is not, in fact, the primary objective of the government, even if it's the objective that the government has set the DVLA.

Mark

[The Natural Philosopher]

Roland Perry wrote: The real scenario is the petty thief driving a

The real scenario is a (as I discovered) a bloke with a wife, two kids, and not much more than his labour to support him on.

So he buys a car with a couple of months tax and MOT, gives a false name and address to the bloke in the pub he got it from, never fills out any paperwork at all, and drives it till it stops working, at which point he leaves it where it stopped and sets fire to it. No insurance, no tax, no MOT. Just a car that once used to work.

He takes cash in hand for his work as well.

Otherwise he would be far better off on the dole.

[Andy Hall]

If it's a *government* objective to need to have coloured bits of paper on cars then it takes us back to where we came in. More government stupidity.

[Roland Perry]

Everyone but you.

What, more expensive than a new army of "licence inspectors"?

Then you'd need to explain to them how tax-dodging is such a strong indicator of other criminal activity that it makes enormous sense for the police to use it as a litmus test.

[Roland Perry]

In message , at 11:11:31 on Sun, 10 Jun 2007, Andy Hall remarked:

I think you just talked yourself in a circle. See other postings for the importance of the paper, despite your mistaken view to the contrary.