Margaret Thatcher RIP;!...

[Richard]

And you are an absolute idiot to believe that a great leader did nothing but harm.

[dennis]

I liked the idea of the poll tax. It would have been OK if the councils hadn't been allowed to put up their spending until it was established. Or local council increased the bills by ~25% with various claims that it was going to be expensive to collect, they wouldn't get more than 80% of it, etc. They didn't reduce it when the poll tax was scrapped or when they were collecting 97% of it.

The best bit was that even people on benefits had to pay some so if they wanted more spending they could vote for it but would have to contribute. Unlike now where they can vote for high spending knowing it will come from other peoples pockets.

The benefits were increased by enough to cover the average payments. They were not reduced when poll tax was scrapped, maybe its time they recovered the extra?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

So they were excellent PMs in your opinion?

[Dave Liquorice]

The unions would have twisted the employers into it over time. The big industry unions were too powerful and the membership sheep behind the leadership.

But often based on fact, 13 weeks is stupid 13 days more likely...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Were you a sheep when you were/are in the ACTT/BECTUE? Or did this only apply to others?

I keep on hearing all these stories about the sheep in unions blindly following a handful of militants, but that is so far from my own personal experience of unions to make it laughable.

And that was proved when secret and postal ballots became the norm.

The 'winter of discontent', etc was at least partially caused by the government of the day setting pay rates etc in state owned industries while having no control over prices and the pay rates in others. Which was seen as an unfair way of attempting to control inflation, by those it directly effected.

The union legislation was brought in about the same time as industry was left to decide such things for themselves. Thus removing perhaps the main cause of major industrial disputes.

But 13 weeks sounds sooo much better.

[Dave Liquorice]

Never in ACTT, still in BECTU. But the neither union can be compared to the big industry unions of the NUM, TGWU etc. I have never felt any pressure at all to join the union, I'm in it to support "collective bargaining", try to curb the worst employment practices (unpaid "work experience" but actually doing the job, work for free we'll give you a share of the profits later, etc), legal assistance should I need it, PLI.

I do not support the political activities of the union, any union. I get the bit of my subs that is allocated to the Political Fund refunded. The union can still lobby parliament they don't need to support any particular political party to do that.

The broadcasting unions were/are small and not very powerful compared to the big industry unions of the 70's and 80's. AFAIK broadcasting has never been closed shop, there has always been a high proportion of non-union people. My personal experience is like yours but that experience doesn't include experience of closed shops, high union membership and unions with a militant leadership.

[The Other Mike]

Labour were always going to take more than 13 years to correct all the wrongs of

18 years of a fascist junta.

[dennis]

Well that did happen, but for some reason Maggie gets the blame.

However stuff like that did happen and may well still happen. I have seen current NHS staff working out how many sick days they have left, presumably in order to use them up.

[Tim Watts]

On Tuesday 09 April 2013 12:28 The Other Mike wrote in uk.d-i-y:

They might have got more done if they'd wasted less time on unecessary wars and inflicting their own fascist rule - surveillance and general interference.

[dennis]

When were you a miner?

Are you going to deny that the mass pickets were not there to intimidate people that didn't agree with scargill?

Maybe you just don't think it ever happened like the ones that decide to ignore what the miners strike was actually about, scargill wanted to overthrow the elected government and that could never be allowed, too many people have died to protect our democracy to allow people like scargill to destroy it.

Its why the generating plant was diversified to stop being reliant on coal and why some of the mines had to close, the rest is down to the clean air act and the use of gas for heating homes which saved many thousands of lives.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Quite. Yet I think you'll find the *general* view of the broadcast unions much the same as any other. Led by a few militants with lots of sheep following blindly. Usually by those who get their views from the press, etc.

That is still political activity which needs funding.

I was in the ABS, then ACTT, then obviously BECTU. ACTT in ITV was effectively a post entry closed shop. As were some of the other entertainment unions - actors and musicians, to name but two.

Alan Sapper was never out of the press as a 'militant' leader of the ACTT.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I don't believe you.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Would they have intimidated you, though? It's funny that most wouldn't admit they could be intimidated so easily - but think hairy arsed miners could.

Yes. Thatcher was out to destroy the mine workers, and Scargill was out to destroy her (the government). The sort of thing applauded in other countries if you do some obvious sustitution. ;-)

And now the gas has run out - long before it would have done if used properly.

[John Williamson]

*If* it happens in the NHS, and I'll not say anything either way here, it's not the only place. I used to have a manager who would regularly throw a sicky before or after her rest days or holidays, as she was allowed a certain number of sick days per year, which she treated as extra holiday.

Her manager knew what was going on, but he kept her on as she was darn good at her job.

[Tim Streater]

And I understand from Twitter (yes, that reliable fact-based bastion of free speech) that Harold Wilson closed four times as many mines as Maggie. Anyone know anything about that?

[whisky-dave]

A manager so what union was she in, or why blame a union for a managment decision.

Yes my manager did that too, but taking days off sick made him look like an ordinary worker, better in managment to take the time off working from home. It's basiclly the same thing just differnet wording.

[John Williamson]

It was a non-union company, and I wasn't blaming the union for anything there. My point was that such behaviour has nothing to do with unions, but can happen anywhere that management lets it.

ordinary worker, better in managment to take the time off working from home.

True, unless he *was* actually working from home.

[tony sayer]

Indeed she did!, I real table fist thumping socialist friend of mine was given the opportunity to buy his council house which he did. He also managed to but the rights to a bit of land nearby, well access rights (look up Fenland ransom strip for the principle;)

Made a lot of money when he sold that, around a couple of million or so and now lives a very pleasant lifestyle indeed what with some decent investments etc...

He was out last night celebrating the death of the olde witch..

The very one that made him a relatively wealthy man....

[tony sayer]

Wonder why they weren't around that long then?...

[ARW]

Not to mention the false claims. One miner broke his foot when he fell over when pissed up. The next day his work mates carried him onto the work bus and down the mine before saying that he had had an accident and he could therefore claim compensation for a work accident.

I am not saying that the NCB/British Coal was wasting money or corrupt but as a teenager I got a free pair of NCB/BC wellies every year. My Dad used to go the personel department and ask for a pair. The guy behind the counter used to ask my Dad what size shoe I was (sometime I used to go for a free measurement) and no-one seemed to mind.