B+Q bathrooms - again.

[A.Lee]

I've wrote previously about poor quality bathrooms from B+Q.

I'm fitting another this week for someone. Delivery arrived yesterday of the 15 items for the bathroom. Direct from a central warehouse, not the local store they told me. First impressions were bad, everything is wrapped in cardboard, with almost all of it sodden. "Is your van leaking then?" I asked. "No, the warehouse is full so this was left outside last night. Charming. They then dropped off everything in the driveway, and kept saying they were late and needed to get somewhere else. "Do you want to check it all before we go, but you'd better be quick, as we are late, and anyway, if anything is broken, you just ring up for a new one" The bit about ringing up for a new one was said at least 3 times, and he even put a ring around the phone number on the delivery note. Half an hour later, I knew why - one of the shower screens was in a 1000 pieces. the buggers knew it was broken. So rang up, OK, we'll get a new one out to you next week. "Well, how about tomorrow, so I can fit it?" Sorry, too busy, next week is the earliest.

Then proceeded to check everything else. Luckily, I noticed a pop-up plug was missing. So rang them again. OK, next week with the shower screen.

Everything else looked to be in one piece, though the toilet pan was filthy. Then this morning when fitting the bath, I noticed a crack on one corner

- it had obviously been dropped onto that corner to cause the crack. I should have rang them to change it, but luckily the crack could not be seen when fitted, so I stuck some epoxy round it, and it should be OK. Then the bath panel - another crack in a corner.

If there was one fault, it could be excused, but these faults have driven home to me the point of never buying a bath suite from B+Q unless you give it a really good inspection at the store - I wouldnt trust their delivery staff at all.

Alan.

[dennis]

Remind me never to have a (broken) bath fitted by you. ;-)

[Colin Wilson]

We recently had a new bathroom delivered by Plumbworld, and the=20

*worst* I can say about them was that we were _very_ pleased with the=20 level of service and quality of the goods.

There was a small problem with the basin - it had a small hole in a=20 visible part of the enamel (air bubble?) but a single email resulted=20 in them saying they were sending a replacement, and to dispose of the=20 original however we saw fit.

Having looked around the likes of Focus / B&Q since, we still can't=20 help laughing at the prices they're charging for a basic bathroom=20 suite - we got an 8 jet whirlpool and back to wall basin / toilet=20 combo (with wall units) for about =A31k

(currently =A3368 for the bath and =A3650 for the basin / bog combo)

ol' man put them in (I suck at DIY) - he does them regularly as=20 he's a bit of a scouse Medway Handyman. Even he was impressed by the=20 quality compared to the stuff he usually has to deal with - which=20 often cost the buyer considerably more.

While i'm at it, can I add that I was similarly impressed with=20 Screwfix over something that seemingly went out of stock as soon as=20 i'd ordered it (a thermostatic shower). They were on the phone to let=20 me know within 30 minutes, then proceded to try to check the next=20 expected stock delivery dates for me (which turned out to be=20 unsuitable for me).

[Andy Hall]

There are two problems here:

- Using B&Q as a supplier of products for professional use

- Allowing customers to buy products from B&Q that you will fit.

Their operation is like the proverbial curate's egg - good in parts.

They can manage to exchange goods and even compensate customers, as they should. That's a simple logistics process.

They can't manage anything involving more than simple logistics and don't have an appropriate customer service ethic - i.e. if you screw up, you apologise and fix the issue *now*, not next week.

They believe that price can subsitute for poor customer service. Unfortunately, a significant proportion of customers are not sufficiently bright or assertive and they can get away with it.

[Tanner-'op]

All correct procedures up to now!

And then you spoil it!!

So why didn't you report those faults?

Now, what if another, more obvious fault develops in the bath (or your 'repair' fails and the bath ultimately leaks), just how are you going to manage to convince B&Q to replace it after your bodge-up - or explain what you did to your client - presuming of course that you are warranting the job and will attend any complaint of defective workmanship?

But surely that doesn't exonerate you from a 'duty of care' to your client?

More to the point, you have driven home the fact that you are prepared to 'con' your client by knowingly fitting a defective unit and then hiding that fact - and have the nerve to charge for the job.

Well, you are not exactly trustworthy are you?

As a matter of interest, in this litigious age, I wonder how the client could sue you for if the bath suddenly breaks because of the known (by you and you alone) faults and causes serious injury, personal injury or damage to the property? Mmmm 'veeeeery' interesting!

I hope this particular customer isn't into reading this group and suddenly puts two and to together. LOL

Tanner-'op

All insults will be ignored.

[F]

Isn't it likely to develop as the bath flexes in use?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I don't think I'd be happy with a plumber dictating what I had to fit. Avocado is so '70s. But I'm sure you can get good quality ones cheap.

Allowing plumbers to recommend something you don't see - like a boiler - doesn't seem too successful either.

[Tanner-'op]

Many do - including some that post here and they are usually a 'sole trader' - they find it easier - or haven't quite grasped the fact that they can usually haggle a discount with a builders merchant yet charge the customer at full cost plus a percentage for collection.

"Allowing the customers..." that's a bit of arrogance there on your part!

Surely the 'pipers calls the tune' and they can choose to buy from wherever they wish - as can the so called professional choose who he works for?

A bit like some of the major builders/plumbers merchants that I have dealt with over the years - the last one being the Plumb Center very recently.

Unlike some trademen.

At least you can generally contact them - unlike some 'professional' tradesmen who 'c*ck the job' up and then refuse to honour their contractual obligations to correct defective work *or* even answer their telephones.

Again you are a little arrogant regarding 'customers' - a rather typical trait for some tradesmen.

Tanner-'op

Not a sycophant of B&Q by the way - but there again, I never deal with them for major purchases.

[Arfa Daily]

Bathstore dot con had me for 36 quid delivery charge, and then I had to help the wheezing old codger on the wagon, to get the stuff off ! He had no answer when I asked him whose responsbility it would be if I hurt my back, or if I dropped my end of the (heavy) bath, and damaged it.

Today, I had some kitchen units and a 3m work surface delivered from Wickes. They arrived on the bed of an open backed truck, in amongst the bags of sand and the fence panels. They had a tarp slung roughly across them, against the pissing down rain that we were having. The first item off was wrong. It was a stainless steel sink unit that should have been a black one. We went over it at least four times with the moron in the shop, but still when I looked at the sales note a bit closer after the delivery, it was the stainless one that had been booked to the invoice. There was a lot of tooth sucking from the delivery driver, who helpfully told me that the black ones were "pretty rare mate. You'll have to phone to see if they've even got one ..."

Many phone calls later, with un-kept promises to call me back, the missus got home from work, and took over. In one call, she had them ringing round the other branches until they found one, which they got to the store tonight. They then rang me to say they are going to deliver it tomorrow. So they came good in the end, after coming off worst from an encounter with my other half, but isn't it so frustrating that this sort of thing is now the norm rather than the exception ?

Arfa

[John Rumm]

There is a fundamental difficulty here when the customer buys the raw materials and the fitting service from two (or more) different places. Who carries the can when something is not right?

[John Rumm]

Obviously not seeing the fault or the repair it unreasonable to comment in detail. However is does raise another point regarding customers sourcing parts from external suppliers: I wonder how the customer would have reacted when billed for an extra days labour incurred rectifying problems caused B&Q?

An alternative view was that he was saving the customer additional cost and delay by making good a minor defect...

More milk tibbles?

As with all things, it is a judgement call. If the broken bit is structural and failure could result in injury, or it was obvious the repair would always be inferior, then it would be daft to fix it. If on the other hand it is just decorative and can be repaired to be as good as (or in fact better than) new, what is the problem?

Perhaps he said to the customer - "look this was damaged, but I have fixed it like that".

By whom?

[Andy Hall]

I agree.

The customer should do their due diligence and select what they want. There are far better ranges than those from B&Q and certainly far better suppliers.

[Andy Hall]

Missed business opportunity....

One can make that argument. However, it is outcome that ultimately matters.

Agreements where supply of materials and labour are different deals are wide open to problems. For example, faulty goods, goods that break during fitting, late deliveries, wrong items and so on.

On larger and more expensive projects it can be worth giving the installer the margin for managing the whole project and taking responsibility for outcome.

I'm not a tradesman, but I do think that outcome and ownership are important. Having clearly defined agreeements is a good way for business to be done.

B&Q are good for what they do - volume distribution of low to medium ticket items for he retail customer. Large purchases and projects, no..

[Andy Hall]

I'd have refused delivery,.

The problem is that too many people are letting the suppliers get away with this sloppy nonsense. It's perfectly straightforward to have the correct goods available at the correct time and to deliver them appropriately.

Then when mistakes happen, the supplier should b going out of their way to fix the problem without being asked.

The important point is to keep them on a short leash as your wife did and not to accept excuses that they will call back and all the rest of it. I've found that the most effective method is to monopolise their time until they fix the problem. Otherwise they just go off and oil the wheel that is squeaking more.

Customer service and assertiveness training should be on the national curriculum.

[A.Lee]

No point in reporting them as the fault was minor and easily rectified by a bit of glue, but I pointed it out here,as it should not have been there when delivered. I showed the customer the fault, and he agreed that it wasnt worth waiting over a week to replace the bath when it was in a corner that could not be seen, - it had the wooden support moulded around it, so it could not get any bigger - it was an impact crack on an edge, not something that will get worse. Alan.

[A.Lee]

No. It was an impact crack, clearly pushed in a few mm, it also had the wooden piecec moulded along that edge, so will not get any worse. Alan.

[A.Lee]

I'm very trustworthy. Everything I do is guaranteed, if someone doesnt like anything I do, I fix it.

Yes, I did tell the customer, and he agreed that it wasnt worth the hassle of returning it. As it happens, I'm not going to be losing anything, as I'll be at this house for 3 weeks or so as there is so much to do, though if I was only there to fit the bath suite, theen I certainly wouldnt have been too happy at all - as you know, re-arranging customers and keeping them all happy is pretty impossible. Thanks Alan.

[A.Lee]

I've done 3 bathrooms in the last 2 months, and all the main parts were supplied by B+Q, and chosen/bought by the customer. I have given guarantees on all the work I have done, but have made it clear that any subsequent fault with the fittings would not be covered by my warranty, though if there is a fault (unlikely, as once they are in, they are very reliable), then I'd probably just do it free of charge anyway. The B+Q baths are rubbish. They flex a lot, are so thin that the sun can be seen through them, and the fittings kit is minimal(if the supplied fittings kit is used, I cannot see how the bath would stay in position). Alan.

[dennis]

Normally if there is a crack in something like a plastic bath you drill a hole at the end of the crack to relieve the stresses. If you don't there is a risk it will carry on splitting. I know I had to do so after I broke our bath as it just kept going until I did. Then it was a three week wait for the insurance to authorise the repair, they didn't seem to like the idea I had fallen on it while changing the bulb.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Some B&Q stuff is OK. I doubt that includes the cheap packages, though.

And if you want to see the suite in the flesh before buying, it might be the only place you can do this in some areas.