Why street lights on all night?

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When you fly in and see all those parking lots lit up:)
The light illumniating the lot is doing its job
Waste light leaks and goes directly to the sky illuminating nothing.
Just thought I would point this out
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

why not use the same type camera system that changes traffic signals when there are cars around. let the cameras turn on the street lights where there is activity, and off after an hour of no activity. they have a long view from pole top.
most of our local lots now use 70 watt sodium bulbs, each easily replaced at least ten 100 watt incandescent bulbs. lots that were on timers until 2am switching 6000 watts now use photocells to switch 420 watts dusk to dawn.
dallas made a substantial power cut just by replacing all the traffic signal bulbs with snap in led panels. and cut maintenance staff who's only job was continually replacing burned out signal bulbs. some intersection controllers and signals are now solar powered. all of the school zones are solar powered, including the radio links that eliminated the timing sync when they lost power. (no more school zone flashing at 2am)
-- larry / dallas
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the high efficeny sodium and other lamps take a few minutes to come to full briteness.
by the time the sensor tripped light on vehicle would of passed.
plus theres liability issues if lamps fail for some reason....
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Yeah, but those goddamn red-light camera flash bulbs can come on to full brightness in 0.001 seconds!
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In article

That doesn't matter.

That doesn't matter.

It STILL doesn't matter.
All that matters is that we FEEL GOOD just doing something - anything - to address the "crisis" of "wasted" energy and the <koff, hack> global warming it causes.
When all the efforts toward conservation have been made, although that will never happen in the minds of too many, it still won't be enough to some. To the environmentalist extremist, the only truly good world is one where mankind no longer exists. Until that day, they won't be happy. Of course, they'll be gone, too, so it's moot point.
A growing society will consume increasing amounts of energy. There is NO WAY around that fact.
A society that no longer grows will collapse and be gone. There is no way around THAT fact.
Take your pick.
--
JR

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<Big snip>

I'm not sure that I can understand this comment. Why not just replacement? Or, perhaps a minor reduction in population?
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I can't help you there, sorry.

Zero population growth or, worse, "negative growth" (declining, overall population) is the harbinger of the collapse of a society. It is historically well documented.
--
:)
JR

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Jim Redelfs wrote:

Interesting comment. I believe that France and Italy are experiencing static populations and Europe as a whole has significantly lower population growth than in the past. Japan, I believe is also experiencing an ageing population. All of which are countries "that had their day" and therefore in "relative decline". I do appreciate your comments, though the demise of China, Egypt, Rome and Greece historically does not require more recent dynasties to collapse either to a major extent or at all.
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How would you feel about driving into a completely dark street?

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When it gets dark early, I do it every day. My car has headlights so I can see. Yours probably has them too. Look for a switch.
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Gary H wrote:

we did that a lot about a year ago. it would take the city or state months to replace miles of copper pulled out of the conduit between the lights. the dark bridges across the river were the only places folks seemed to care about.
crime- down here, storm windows are a good crime deterrent since few houses have them.
-- larry/dallas
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This was a not-so-rare occurrence in The Good Old Days<tm> of the dial-up BBS (Bulletin Board System) and FidoNet - a virtual predecessor to the internet we now take for granted.
It was not uncommon for a reply to arrive on a reader's computer BEFORE the original message.
This is why quoting became a convention and persists to this day.
It was the fact that, during the BBS days, the messages were moved around the country (and, later, the world) using dial-up LONG DISTANCE calls - all paid for out of the pocket of the hobbyist BBS "SysOp" (System Operator).
It was this fact that made EDITING ones quotes imperative and an absolute requirement. Bandwidth was expensive to the BBS operator who often provided access to these services for FREE. They paid the monthly fee for a dedicated, standalone phone line. Some even had multiple phone lines. In its heyday, MacNet Omaha (1:285/14) had TWO lines. It was an expensive hobby, indeed, while raising three young daughters. Mrs. MacWidow was MORE than patient during the seven years it operated.
--
:)
JR

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wrote:

<Snip>
Indeed they are grateful as are the astronomers in Tucson, Hilo, San Jose and numerous other places. The lighting ordinances in those areas have kept the light pollution under control so the multi-million dollars invested in observatories, staff salaries and benefilts to the local economies are still paying off. Other places, where wasted light makes it impossible for astronomers to see the sky, they've packed up their telescopes and moved to darker areas in Chile or Argentina.
So, let's see if I've got this right. You are saying that we should continue to pay taxes to waste 30% of the light and energy from our public lighting systems (streets and parking areas) lighting up the underside of birds and airplanes so observatory investment goes off shore and so we get to enjoy glaring and excessive lighting.
TKM
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If that is your interpretation of my words, more words are unlikely to change your mind. I am not prepared to challenge your claim of "30%" or even your definition of "waste". We obviously disagree.
I object mostly to the simplistic views of those that impugn that which has served us well for ages yet, only comparatively recently, declare that it is "bad" or "wasted" or now constitutes "pollution".
Perhaps it because I am probably older than most of the vocal environmentalists. I remember how things were and how far we have come. Most frustrating is the knowledge that, no matter how far we have come or how much we do currently in the realm of environmental protection and conservation, it isn't enough - and it will never be enough.
IOW, they would bitch if they were hung with a NEW rope.
--
:)
JR

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On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 23:25:58 -0800 (PST), terry
Ever been into an inner city area? Miami has an area called the Pork-N-Beans projects, located about Liberty City. Adjacent to Little Havana. The lights have an orange color, so people can see better into the night.
Once in Liberty City I experienced a few locals that had bones pierced through their noses. That was in daylight, can you imagine what the night looks like there?
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Oren wrote:

Okay, I'll play. Where would YOU put your bone?
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wrote:

The first train smoking out of town! Or call the power company for street lights, just so I could see.
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Maybe National Geographic can cut costs by doing a shoot on cannibals from there and pawning it off as some other country.
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wrote:

Yes and still cover the Voodoo Festival on Miami Beach, the plight of Cubans 1960-1980. And Haitians floating ashore, or cover an episode of the Last American Leaving Miami (please bring the flag).
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A 2002 DOE report found that outdoor lighting in the U.S. used 58,000+ gigawatt hours/year. 93% of that went for roadway and parking area lighting.
And, that total doesn't include night sports lighting, on-premise signs, building floodlighting or landscape/decorative lighting.
There are certainly savings to be had no matter what you think about light and crime or safety. For example, what about the wasted light -- that portion that just goes directly up into the sky from poorly shielded streetlights? That waste has been estimated at 30% of the total power used by streetlighting by the International Dark-Sky Association. So, just controlling the wasted light would save $1.7+ billion per year if the electricity costs $.10/kWh. Depending upon the fuel used to generate the energy, less oil or coal would be used and less C02 and other environmental pollutants would be emitted.
So, at least reducing the wasted light that does no one any good seems like a no-brainer plus, as others have said, turning off or dimming down some streetlights late at night when traffic is light, especially on freeways, makes sense too.
Streetlights can now be addressed individually via internet technology and so dimmed down or turned off when not needed.
Some streetlighting is also excessively bright as the newer car headlights have some 4X the light output of older headlights. Oddly enough, headlighting doesn't seem to have been taken into account in the lighting designs for most traffic streets and highways.
TKM
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