Why is raw honey from Costco twice as expensive as Filtered ?

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On 01/01/2016 06:25 PM, snipped-for-privacy@unlisted.moc wrote:

Don't be so quick to laugh:
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5684/20140117/5-000-bees-fitted-microchip-sensors-map-movement-stop-disease.htm
Any bee with the wrong chip, or no chip, will be droned forthwith.
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| Seems to me that raw honey, which is honey right out of the | hive, should be *cheaper* than filtered honey, which is honey | that has been post processed. | | But, pricing is the other way around. | Why?
You didn't mention anything about brands or source, but there are two possible issues I know of: There's been an ongoing scandal in recent years with 1) Chinese honey being adulterated with heavy metals and 2) honey being thinned out with sugar syrup. With the very highly refined stuff it's very difficult to tell where it's from or whether it's been thinned, because there's very little left other than sugar and water.
So it makes sense that raw honey, from an accountable source (both in terms of flowers and location) would be more expensive than dubious, refined sugar syrup packaged by big distributors like Sue Bee or the other companies that sell pale, refined honey in cute, plastic "bear" bottles, because that honey might very well be Chinese honey rejected by other countries and/or watered down product.
If you want to research you can look up terms like "chinese honey scandal".
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Mayayana wrote:

I expect to harvest some honey from my hives next summer . This will be mainly wildflower plus whatever else is blooming and producing nectar out in the woods - there is no commercial ag withing their foraging range . The price will be around $20 per pint plus shipping ... I will post availibility when I harvest - probably in midsummer . This will be raw honey filtered thru cheesecloth .
--
Snag



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On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 16:30:03 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

You may know the answer to another question I have about this honey:
https://i.imgur.com/dZ6B5vm.gif
What do those strange hieroglyphic symbols mean?
There is no word "organic" on it, nor any "USDA" symbol. But, there is a big "D" with a small "k" inside of it with "pareve" below that.
Similarly, my Costco "Kirkland" Maple Syrup has strange markings too!
https://i.imgur.com/Hkxts0N.gif
It has a big "U" with a circle around it and it says "USDA/Organic" and "Eco/Cert".
Notice that NONE of the symbols are common between the raw unfiltered honey and the pure right-from-the-tree maple syrup.
You'd think they'd have common symbols since they are both presumably pure products - but the symbols are totally different.
Anyone know what they mean?
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On 01/01/2016 04:56 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:

http://www.kashrut.com/agencies/ http://www.dallaskosher.org/ https://oukosher.org/
You'll be happy to know your honey is kosher. Probably halal too if you're a Muslim. Pareve means it's neither fleishig (meat) or milchig (dairy) so it can be used sweeten your tea with milk or make a sauce for your ribs (beef, of course)
You might not be so happy to know the price you paid for the honey includes the fee charged by one of the kosher concerns to certify the company isn't lubricating the extractor with lard or something.
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wrote:

Yes, the big D with the k inside is Dallas Kosher.

And the OU is the OU.

Why do you say something like this? The cost of inspecting a honey facility is probably less than a penny a bottle. It's nothing like meat where inspection has to be continuous and adds, with the other requirements for kosher meat, several dollars a pound to the cost of meat.
For a product like honey, especially since it has only one ingredient, the inspector would only have to visit once or twice a year for a couple hours, if that much. The first time, they'd show him around the plant, he'd learn how honey was bottled there, he'd see that there are no other ingredients (He'd probably already have learned that before his first visit.), maybe they'd have a little tea with honey , and he'd be done. After that, it would take even less time for the inspection.
Unflavored honey, as this product is, wouldn't even require inspection except that it's heated (what difference that makes, I'm not sure) and this company probaby solicited the inspection in order to increase sales, which they wouldn't do if the price went up much.
http://www.dallaskosher.org/commercial NORTH DALLAS HONEY/NATURE NATE'S 6573 County Road 124 McKinney, TX 75071 (214-701-3443)     With offices in Frisco, TX North Dallas Honey Company has been providing local, raw and unfiltered honey for you and your family since 1972. They have partnered with North Texas beekeepers to provide top-quality, local raw honey. Their Texas honey is gently warmed and strained through cheesecloth to remove the "bee knees," leaving the enzymes and the antioxidants of the honey. For constancy, they blend a variety of honeys from honey-producing plants, including clover, vetch, wildflower, and mesquite. This refers to all their products and not especially the one in this thread.
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On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 17:34:22 -0800, wanderer wrote:

You said it in the post but I'll underscore that I think it's heated just so that it's thin enough to filter easily.
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On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 17:34:22 -0800, wanderer wrote:

This is good to know because it's *not* on the label!
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On 01/01/2016 06:34 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.net wrote:

Why should I pay even a penny to support some religious organization? Will the Muslims be the next to see a nice scam in having a cresent M or something on every container? I'm not interested in whether my honey, coffee, salmon, or myriad other products are kosher or not. Unfortunately it's out of my hands if producers want to cater to 2% or less of the US population.
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On 1/1/2016 10:02 PM, rbowman wrote:

The USA seems to be turning into a minocracy. Some group or other wants raw honey, and the world caters to the interests of the minority. I don't see us majority types being able to do anything about it.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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wrote:

So don't. You won't be missed. But your unwillingness to spend a penny on a religious organization, or a Jewish organization, is no excuse for trying to give others the impression it costs more than it does. I wouldn't be annoyed except that antisemites do this too, specifically to create hostility towards Jews.

No, it's not a scam. Jews who keep kosher want an independent inspection of the processed food they might buy, both because of honest mistakes the producer can make, negligence, and even fraud. (I'll bet in a different context, you wouldn't be very trusting of corporate food makers.) For meat, poultry, bread, and wine, inspection predates the USA's FDA by hundreds or probably thousands of years.
When all the food Jews ate was made in their own kitchens or by people they knew, then there was still local inspection of what's listed above. But canning begain in the 1800's and by the 1920's and much more so after WWII, national food brands and then prepared foods came onto the market, and some of them sought out kosher inspection so they could sell to a wider customer base.
BTW, my great-grandfather raised honey. About once a week, he'd take some to the market to sell. It wasn't flavored and afaik didn't need inspection, and in the small town he lived in, probably everyone knew him and that he and his family kept kosher.

So? Most people aren't.

But you'll whine about it and try to mislead people as to how much it costs.
And it's not just Jews who prefer to buy kosher food. These food makers know what they're doing when they solicit certification.
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| Why should I pay even a penny to support some religious organization?
I don't think it usually works out that way. If you buy a bottle of honey marked "pareve" it's probably $3.99... or $5.79... or something like that. The non- marked bottle is not going to be $5.78. You're not *really* paying for the mark.
On the other hand, declaring purity or blessedness *has* always been one of the central rackets of religious establishments. Buying blessings is well established in the Catholic church, for instance. As with plumbers, priests can drive the price up by controlling the number of licensed blessers. Kosher law can also serve as a form of protection racket for the people who don't dare allow the proverbial black cat of treif [non-kosher food] to cross their path.
Given that sort of thing, maybe you feel strongly that religion is destructive, like the "new atheists" who think scientific materialism will save us and that religion has caused all wars? In that case I could see why you wouldn't want to risk supporting religion mongerers.
Personally I find that view to be a particularly naive and simplistic brand of homemade religion. If we reject religion then aren't we practicing the same approach of taking sides against an "other" that religion is faulted for? Modern technophiles are hoping to save their necks by cheering for the right team, just like some religious people are. In that sense science becomes another superstition. The most notable difference is that the science followers aim low. Religious people often hope to know God and view their lives as being dedicated to that work. Science followers hope only to extend their lives and discover a more delicious flavorant to put on popcorn. They accept a simplistic, concretist view of reality and essentially subscribe to the irrational view that whoever dies with the most toys, and pleasurable experiences, wins. The great danger with science followers is that they fervently believe themselves to be immune to irrational belief. (There are an awfully lot of people who say they believe that when they die, that's it. They are their body. Their soul or thoughts are mere chemical reactions. There is no meaning. We're just vehicles for DNA to reproduce itself, floating around on a rock in the universe. Yet those same people spend a fortune to pick their funeral trappings and gravestone. When we see such fancy caskets used by ancient Egyptians we say the silly fools thought they were taking their worldly comforts to an afterlife. But us? No. We're rationalists. We just like a good casket. :)
I buy kosher salt. I like the big flakes. It sprinkles better. My other requirement with salt is that it not contain additives of aluminum, cyanide, or any other idiotic thing that someone thought would be clever to include. Interestingly, kosher doesn't seem to necessarily mean without toxins, in this case. It just means the flakes are big.
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On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 15:56:46 -0500, Mayayana wrote:

I know a little about the Chinese scandal, but only enough to be dangerous.
I may be placing my trust in the wrong company, but, I sort of trust Costco that they're not selling Chinese honey.
I'm only comparing the Costco "Clover" filtered honey with the Costco Nature Nates raw honey (which is twice the price per ounce).
https://i.imgur.com/dZ6B5vm.gif
Of the Chinese scandal, I only know half the story, which is that without the pollens in filtered honey, they can't tell where it came from.
But the other half of the story is what's wrong with the Chinese filtered honey versus the Costco filtered honey? I don't know.
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| I may be placing my trust in the wrong company, but, I sort of | trust Costco that they're not selling Chinese honey. |
Why would you trust that? If it's highly refined honey then even if Costco is honest they have no way of confirming the source. Since it's store brand it's likely that they buy it from a big wholesale distributor, which may very well deal in tanker ships that arrive and pump their stock into giant holding tanks, to then be sold by the tanker-truck-load to retailers or brand name honey packagers. That's the problem with store brand. It's also an increasing problem with international commerce.
I saw something recently about olive oil scams, and junk olive oil being shipped through Greece just so it could get a Greek label. I saw another article about how much fish sold is not the fish they say it is. A scientist was testing the DNA. One case was a fish sandwich shack in Florida with a sign saying the fish was local. The fish sandwiches turned out to be fresh water giant catfish from Vietnam. (Agent orange, anyone?) When asked about the sign saying the fish was local, the proprietor said something like, "It is local. I buy it from the guy up the street."
If you want to trust there needs to be some basis for that. If you buy Ed's wildflower honey from Ed's Honey Farm in Elmira, NY, and Ed provides a way to contact him, as well as a website, then you *might* be able to trust Ed. If Costco deserved your trust they'd know about the honey they sell, they'd tell you, and they'd make sure the honey producer was clearly credited on the label. The fact that it's store brand indicates that the producer is not taking responsibility *and* that Costco is confident you don't care about that.
|
https://i.imgur.com/dZ6B5vm.gif
| Sorry, I can't see images on that site.
| But the other half of the story is what's wrong with the Chinese | filtered honey versus the Costco filtered honey? I don't know. |
It might be watered down. It might contain toxins. And the Costco honey might be the Chinese honey. Personally I'd assume it *is*. they target people looking for bargains who don't ask questions when they have the proverbial 50% off stereos that fell off the back of a truck. That's the perfect venue for Chinese honey. The only question would be how many laundering levels would Costco want in place in order to accept it. As noted above, I would guess that they very well may have no way of knowing exactly what their direct supplier is selling.
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Mayayana wrote:

IMO, At the best the honey could come from bee keeper co-op. I never buy honey from store. I personally buy from independent small operation bee keeper who usually started out as amateur, ended up producing more honey, not enough to commercialize but can share with some folks. Concern for any Chinese food stuff is purity free of heavy metal and PCB or other contaminants.
Korea imports lot of them from China, one story, they mixed in lead pellets into bulk dried hot pepper since it is sold by the weight. In Korean market any thing from China is less expensive.
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Probably the best way to buy honey. I have heard that local honey can help reduce hay feaver in some people.
From what I understand honey will not spoil if it is not 'watered down'.
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Ralph Mowery wrote:

Local honey will contain local pollen in miniscule amounts . This can desenzitize SOME people - and AFAK you can't filter it out . By law honey can contain no more that 16.5% (I think that's the number) water , more than that and the honey can ferment . A good thing if you're making mead , but for other uses not so much . There has been so much said here about unfiltered honey not being "raw" honey . That's not the criterion . Raw honey , just like raw milk , has not been pasteurized . Heating honey to the temps used to pasteurize it destroys all the microorganisms that give honey it's "medicinal" properties . IMO the only use for pasteurized honey is for children under a year old , because occasionally botulinim spores occcur in it and can make the wee ones sick .
-- Snag
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On Fri, 01 Jan 2016 20:38:00 -0600, Terry Coombs wrote:

I was wondering why they said on the bottle not to feed to infants! Thanks for pointing out why, before I even asked!
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Paul M. Cook wrote:

Even adult can get drunk if too much raw honey is eaten.
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Oren wrote, on Fri, 01 Jan 2016 16:18:37 -0800:

Trans fat free too I'll bet!
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